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1995 Oldsmobile 88 Royale- Odd noise after start up
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Richard1371
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Jun 11, 2014, 12:08 PM
Post #1 of 17
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1995 Oldsmobile 88 Royale- Odd noise after start up
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1995 Oldsmobile 88 Royale
3800 Series II 3.8L V6
4T60-E transmission
125K miles
I bought this car a couple weeks ago, really impressed with its condition inside and out. Only 2 previous owners. I do know the car was sitting for a little while prior to me buying it. I do not know how long, but i do not expect it to be even a month or two based on the condition of it.
As with every used car i buy, I give it a minor tune-up (plugs, wires, filters, etc) I noticed after a couple days that upon shifting into 1st or reverse from a cold start, there is a groaning sort of vibration, which goes away after a little while. This didnt concern me majorly, although I'm not sure exactly what it is. Torque Converter maybe?
AT fluid looked good, I doubt it was original fluid. I went ahead and dropped the pan and changed the fluid. Old fluid looked pretty good and there wasnt a single chunk or chip of metal in the pan, just a fine silvery paste on the magnet. A couple days after changing the fluid, i noticed a weird noise after I first started it up. Sort of a soft scraping noise. As if a rotating piece of metal is just grazing another piece of metal. Not a grinding sound, it almost sounds like using sandpaper on metal, just with a bit deeper pitch. Then upon shifting into 2nd from 1st, there is a slightly louder scraping/grinding noise. It doesnt happen while its shifting, it seems to happen right after it is in gear as if its not meshing quite right at first. The sound lasts a split second. After this, the first noise I described will go away right then, or become almost inaudible and go away shortly after. The rest of the shifts are perfectly normal, even when i shift from 1 to 2 afterwards. Its just the initial shift that makes the noise
I have read that changing the fluid can cause sheering and other issues because the new fluid is "grippier". However the old fluid didnt look bad enough that it would make a difference. Also i changed the fluid in another car with the 4T60-E which had 145k miles and the fluid was original. There were no such issues.
I dont know a whole lot about transmissions, especially regarding diagnosis. Im not entirely sure it is even the transmission. Someone told me it could be the starter staying engaged, however I would think that would sound a lot different than this does. I wouldnt expect the starter to make a much higher pitched sound, and Im not sure why it would grind upon shifting, unless the RPM change would cause that. Id love it to be the starter rather than a soon-to-be-major transmission problem, but Im not that hopeful :)
I appreciate any assistance you guys may have. Thank in advance!
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 11, 2014, 12:58 PM
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Re: 1995 Oldsmobile 88 Royale- Odd noise after start up
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Noises are too hard to diagnose over the internet without hearing them. You need to have someone or yourself attempt to pinpoint the source of the noise. Sometimes a screwdriver or mechanic's stethoscope helps.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Richard1371
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Jun 11, 2014, 1:13 PM
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Re: 1995 Oldsmobile 88 Royale- Odd noise after start up
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Thanks for the reply. It his hard to hear the noise over the engine from under the hood. I can hear it best from inside the car and from under the car. When i have time ill jack it up and listen to it and maybe prod around with my stethoscope. However i dont see how i could listen to the noise that occurs while shifting, from anywhere besides inside the car.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 11, 2014, 1:34 PM
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Re: 1995 Oldsmobile 88 Royale- Odd noise after start up
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It is really hard to say what that could be. There are so many rotating items in a transmission that could cause that noise. Other things outside the transmission could be making that noise also.
How does the transmission shift? It is harsh? Maybe you should take it to your mechanic and have him/her go for a ride with you. Two sets of ears maybe better than one.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Jun 11, 2014, 1:35 PM)
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Richard1371
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Jun 11, 2014, 2:05 PM
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Re: 1995 Oldsmobile 88 Royale- Odd noise after start up
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It shifts very smoothly. Thats one of the things that impressed me so much. The 1-2 shift is the harshest one and i can barely tell it shift. With the rest of the shiftsi have to pay close attention to even notice it shift, especially into 4th. Hopefully a closer listen will point me in the right direction. I have a couple guys who could listen to it with me too. I just thought it was a little suspicious that it happens soon after changing the fluid.
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Richard1371
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Jun 12, 2014, 8:23 PM
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Re: 1995 Oldsmobile 88 Royale- Odd noise after start up
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I have found that the grind doesnt occur during shifting. I kept it in first gear and the grind occurred at about the RPM range where it would shift. It also occurs in reverse at the same RPM range. It does not occur in neutral or park. It also does not occur while the car is not in motion (i put it in gear and revved while holding the brake to see if it would happen at the same RPM range). Im at a loss as for why it will only grind once and be done.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 12, 2014, 8:39 PM
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Re: 1995 Oldsmobile 88 Royale- Odd noise after start up
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Noises can be tough as Discretesignals said especially over the web and not in person. Any chance this isn't trans at all as didn't you say it won't duplicate this if not moving? Perhaps a splash shield for front brakes or something with rotation of wheels and shafts to them is doing this. It goes away and that doesn't help so look for evidence if that possible.
Many assorted vehicles have rubber flaps, plastic stuff to deflect road spray water/dirt from wheels. See if all that is in place.
It sat an unknown time. Brakes come to mind if long enough and can sound like something else. Just a thought,
T
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Richard1371
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Jun 12, 2014, 9:25 PM
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Re: 1995 Oldsmobile 88 Royale- Odd noise after start up
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Thanks a lot for the help. I actually just idled my way to a nearby hill, put im neutral, and the grinding sound occurred. So it seems it happens based on speed, not RPMs. Happens around 15mph.
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Richard1371
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Jun 12, 2014, 9:27 PM
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Re: 1995 Oldsmobile 88 Royale- Odd noise after start up
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Now Im not sure if the initial scraping noise and the grinding noise are related. They sound similar, as if the latter is more severe, and the first noise goes away after the second one happens. Also the initial noise only happens while it is in gear.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Jun 12, 2014, 10:25 PM
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Re: 1995 Oldsmobile 88 Royale- Odd noise after start up
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Quote: put im neutral, and the grinding sound occurred.''
Goose chasing and sorry I'm trying to think outside the box for a noise that's erratic and car that sat what might be common but not always a real problem. Not there to hear it in person to guess whether it's serious or just annoying or even might go away in time totally?
Couple tests might reveal something? Hoist just drive wheels and see if it happens. Remove drive wheels, put a couple lug nuts back on turn wheels by hand - engine off. Check brakes and condition of rotors and that pads are equally worn side to side. An outer rust ring on rotor could be erratic noise. A stuck caliper pin may be sticky so while there just take those out one at a time and lube them with brake grease.
Look at motor mounts while a helper brake stands (in gear, some gas and watch them move some in FWD and Reverse. Some yes but might see a break or out of place even?)
This is made so much harder as it goes away fast so looking for evidence may be the only thing. Real trans issue still not known?
T
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Richard1371
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Jun 12, 2014, 10:47 PM
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Re: 1995 Oldsmobile 88 Royale- Odd noise after start up
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Since i got the grinding to happen in neutral, and found that always happens at the same speed, im thinking it might not be the transmission. I was planning on jacking up the front end and listening to it as you said, but the rest of your advice sounds good too.
I wouldnt call the noise erratic though. It happens at exactly the same time, every time i drive for the first time. If i shut the car off, start it up again and go, it will do it again. However simply coming to a stop and going again will not do it. Which is why i was questioning the starter. Again I'll be able to listen more closely later on today when someone can help me.
Im not as worried about it now as i was when i thought it was happening during the 1-2 shift though
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Richard1371
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Jun 12, 2014, 11:44 PM
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Re: 1995 Oldsmobile 88 Royale- Odd noise after start up
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Did not grind while the front was jacked up. I'll try again later though
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 13, 2014, 1:08 AM
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Re: 1995 Oldsmobile 88 Royale- Odd noise after start up
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Hmmmm! Make notes. If this must have weight to make the noise that's interesting or just chance? Conjures thinking about wheel bearing so check for freeplay. Most would make noise driving and while turning and shifting weight on wheels make the noise better or worse. Those don't heal and usually dependably make the noise but this is being different so don't rule anything out just yet.
Other is some how brakes could make noise and quit right away just applying them even sitting still as parts still move some.
Wheel trim and even tires where they touch the rim as well. We may be chasing a real oddball issue but at least need to know it's safe. Rotate tires but not the trim on wheels - go for all of it but test with each try to know which one fixed or changed it. If you do two or more things at once you'll never know which, Tom
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Richard1371
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Jun 13, 2014, 1:44 AM
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Re: 1995 Oldsmobile 88 Royale- Odd noise after start up
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Still didnt grind while the front end was jacked up. i drove it again, same exact results as usual. However i tried turning the car off while moving, then starting it again. soon after starting it grinds again. repeated several times with same results. I swear it must be the starter.... Also i discovered the first noise i spoke about is just the power steering pump :) silly me
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 13, 2014, 1:51 AM
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Re: 1995 Oldsmobile 88 Royale- Odd noise after start up
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Keep at it you'll get it. Yes starters can do that just a micron off or too close to a shield or something. PS - make certain it's full and belt is tight. Try plain water first on belt if that changes or makes noise go away consider a new high quality belt. WD 40 on belt will make a noisy belt quit making noise for a day or so most of the time and they really can even new be noisy and sound like serious mechanical problems and are NOT.
Rule nothing out at this point. Good luck, Tom
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Richard1371
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Jun 23, 2014, 1:36 PM
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Re: 1995 Oldsmobile 88 Royale- Odd noise after start up
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This is interesting. One day while I was driving, I happened to have my foot resting on the brake pedal when the grinding happened. I could fully feel it in the brake pedal. The whole time I have been looking for the source of the noise, I always noticed that the master cylinder is in the perfect spot to be the source of the noise, but I couldn't make any sense of that...
Upon further testing I noticed that I could delay the grinding noise by putting some pressure on the brake pedal while driving.
I still think it has to be something controlled electronically since it can only be reproduced after restarting the vehicle and only happened once per start. Maybe it has something to do with the ABS sensor?
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Hammer Time
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Jun 23, 2014, 2:15 PM
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Re: 1995 Oldsmobile 88 Royale- Odd noise after start up
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You might be hearing the ABS pressurizing.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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