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Starting motor/solenoid replacement
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Egas
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Nov 20, 2014, 7:08 AM
Post #1 of 13
(1963 views)
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Starting motor/solenoid replacement
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Hi all,
I wanted to check with you how much labor wise could it cost me to replace the starter motor (and the solenoid as i think they are done both most of the times). I'm trying to evaluate a shop for future work, but somehow I think their estimation was high. $185.00 for replacement (parts aside).
Mitsubishi Lancer 2005 ES. 2.0L with 134,000 Kmts.
I thought in the future I can replace it myself, but don't have a garage and I needed to get it fix right away.
Thanks for the future input!
Cheers!
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GC
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Nov 20, 2014, 7:45 AM
Post #2 of 13
(1956 views)
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Re: Starting motor/solenoid replacement
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Are you sure that price did not include parts?
Are there mods done to this car? I know a lot of these cars are modded and could possibly require more time to replace starter.
If it was a stock vehicle, calls for 1.2 hrs on the 2.0. Multiply by the shop hour rate.
____________________________________________________
Willing to help, willing to learn... Rob
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 20, 2014, 8:07 AM
Post #3 of 13
(1954 views)
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Re: Starting motor/solenoid replacement
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Quick look at a lifetime reman whole starter and solenoid was at cost $104USD. Shop would mark up part(s) and IMO not worth just doing part of it and did NOT find solenoid sold separately fast but it's out there. Remember that labor for place (wherever remans get done) is NOT the rate of a tech.
You said you can't do this yourself right now so your leverage for saving bucks is lost. It could/does cost to be without the car too and counts if done right the first time,
T
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Egas
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Nov 20, 2014, 8:34 AM
Post #4 of 13
(1949 views)
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Re: Starting motor/solenoid replacement
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Thank you both for your prompt responses.
To answer the questions: nope, is not modified or anything.. stock car.
Yes, they are charging ~180 only for labor. The freaking part (and I hope they are saying BOTH) charge is 230!
I did search for parts from rock out for example, and the price range is wide but a bosch remanu goes for 226, while a TYC is 71 bucks.. the solenoid (they do sell it separately there) is another 71 bucks.. I will ask them if they replaced both parts and will ask them for the replaced motor (maybe i can get it reman and sell it again? )
Yes, i said i cannot do it myself right now, but i was hoping to use this situation as a reference for that shop's rates on labor (they told me i can bring my own parts) so when i change other things i dont have time for, or the tools/experience i woudl want to go back to them (if they are not expensive).
Thoughts?
180 labor
230 parts..
Too expensive if is only motor? ok if is both solenoid and motor?..
Thanks!
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Nov 20, 2014, 9:00 AM
Post #5 of 13
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Re: Starting motor/solenoid replacement
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Some here IDK. Rob said labor I would expect is 1.2 hours for R&R = remove and replace whole starter and solenoid remanufactured unit in stock.
FYI - when time allowed (done with all this) and situation right I still had to wait for just a solenoid or a drive gear and some take some time anyway. Yes you could buy starter and alternator parts bit by bit and do yourself or just the part that is the up front problem not the whole thing.
You should know that unless YOU requested just do it part by part that's what you'll get. Shop usually decides on the approach and brand of new or remans, marks it up to "list price" but takes responsibility for the job. Meaning if their part failed in X amount of time parts and labor would be free to you. If by agreement you are going to try to bring your own parts you own the whole job whether it works or not would be my call.
Said - done with this for a long time now and longer since I've seen a true failed solenoid only on the piggy back style that you have. Who diagnosed this at all? If YOU just go in and say to do XYZ work that's just what you may get if it's the problem or not.
Yes that some shops will deal with "bring your own" parts by agreement up front but still who is responsible if it fails for any reason?
Seems right now you just need this done and over with and not mess with it anymore yourself so ask around for another quote if you wish or find out what the one you got really included,
T
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Egas
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Nov 20, 2014, 9:14 AM
Post #6 of 13
(1937 views)
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Re: Starting motor/solenoid replacement
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Thank you Tom.
Shop pretty much told me "the problem is starter" and then quoted me on labor and parts. They did say "low end is 190 bucks 1 yr warranty, top shelf is 230 lifetime" and both were reman.
I'll ask them for more info, or will ask the itemized invoice then i'll compare out there with other shops.
Thanks for the info!.
PS: related to me bringing my own parts, they said they wouldn't provide warranty for the parts.. i assumed they would provide it for the labor itself (that they installed it correctly, and such) if that is even feasible to get.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Nov 20, 2014, 9:49 AM
Post #7 of 13
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Re: Starting motor/solenoid replacement
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This car might be an exception I've never seen for what I call piggy back starters/solenoids. They come together ready to bolt on new or reman units. Of course total new is more money. Quality of remans varies and by nature more defect rates than new.
Now this general biz is much like a restaurant if you follow me. You don't bring your own food then say it's not good after they cook it.
Some starters are so easy the labor doesn't matter and some a nightmare of obstacles that takes more time. The general idea is the repair place is also the parts outlet to final consumer. If you bring them a defective anything why would they want to redo it with another unless they clearly broke it or something?
Parts markup is just plain part of doing about any business. That is profit when nothing fails or defective OR covers the cost of doing it again at no cost to you is the way I see it.
If you buy the parts you are not paying retail prices. Parts places on line or stores also got some markup but will stand by (or should) the product they sold.
There's something missing with the "meeting" of minds for this job. Ask what that place's policy is up front. I say no free labor for a second starter if defective if you brought it in,
T
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nickwarner
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Nov 20, 2014, 1:52 PM
Post #8 of 13
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Re: Starting motor/solenoid replacement
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I doubt they would warranty the labor if you bring your own parts. I don't. The reasoning for the shop is simple. They are going to order the parts from a supplier they know and have had good experience with to get a part that doesn't make a comeback. They then mark up the part, which is a part of doing business and if they did not they would be out of business in a hurry. They don't buy the cheapest made in india crap from ebay so you cannot compare internet pricing as it is an unfair comparison. You can get burned badly on internet parts.
This is a rebuilt starter, so it is going to have a core charge. This is the charge you have to front until they get back your old one so they can rebuild it. Core charges vary by part. Sometimes I have seen core charges more than the part itself. If you wish to keep the old starter that they take out, you will have to pay the core charge as they aren't going to pay it for you.
Bottom line is, if you are going to have a shop do the job, they buy the parts and do the job. If those parts fail they stand behind the work. If you do it yourself, you get the parts and you are left with the issue if it fails early. You don't go half and half on it.
The only time I allow customers to supply parts is if for instance they ask me to patch up a car after hitting a deer and have gone to a salvage yard to pick up the broken body parts. Done a decent amount of them. But if I am expected to stand behind any part of a job with free labor if it fails, I am only going to go so with my parts that I trust to outlast the warranty period.
Like Tom pointed out, you don't bring your own food to a diner and then expect no charge if you don't like the result.
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Egas
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Nov 20, 2014, 3:13 PM
Post #9 of 13
(1887 views)
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Re: Starting motor/solenoid replacement
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Picked up the car, it starts, it's a win.
So Tom, I did ask about the "BYOP" (some restaurants do allow you to bring some of the "parts" like the booze ) .
You were right, no free replacement of the part if the part was defective. I was't expecting for them to do that free labor due to a bad part. What I do expect is that if they performed a bad installation (regardless if I brought my part or not) they should be accountable for. That is why i stated in my previous post under PS: "if that is even feasible to get" as it would be tremendously hard to prove (unless blatantly).
I also asked about the solenoid and yes, it is attached to the motor and they did change both. Should i assume they sell the old solenoid and motor back to the remanufacturer?
Nick,
I wouldn't understand why a business would not stand behind their activity. Their primary function is the service, not the reselling of parts, isn't ? For them not to warranty labor (or you for that matter) is something I cannot understand. Actually, I would argue that the best thing to do is to also include in the "bring your own parts" menu, the right to decline installing parts that either are semi-used or from a brand/company which quality really is below standards. This in order to minimize the amount of times a complain comes to the shop due to failure on a part installed.
Now, related to "online" purchases. Ebay is not the only online store. Rock auto, OReilly and some other good places carry a lot of original brand parts (not knock offs) including the same parts this store supplier carry (Car Auto Parts, Autozone, NAPA, etc ). So yes it is fair to compare their prices just as it was fair to compare prices between Amazon and Bestbuy for electronics.
Thank you for the core comment.. iwas really wondering what the heck was that and how that worked. I asked above if the shop would re-sell the old parts, so i guess is part of the Core description you made. My only question is, so if they did not charge me for the core, then is really marked up in terms of cost. In the comparison from rock auto the core charges were pretty much 50-50. That BOSCH part i mentioned is the more expensive and is still below price than the $234 dlls i paid for this remanu from the shop.
Thank you for the observations. I really appreciate the replies and this does provide me with good information on what to expect for future jobs that my cars might need.
But since i really like debate, and to finish with a reply to the food analogy. If i bring a piece of steak to a grill master, and in turn he/she burns the meat.. then for sure the grill master is to blame and not the steak. Even if the steak was from a Indian cow.
PS: URL to starter and solenoid for this specific car
Starter (solenoid attached)
links deleted ........... not allowed
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Nov 20, 2014, 4:20 PM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 20, 2014, 4:24 PM
Post #10 of 13
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Re: Starting motor/solenoid replacement
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You let me know where that restaurant is that lets you bring your own steak. In my over 60 years of life, I have never seen one.
Don't try to tell up about the quality of parts from different suppliers. Believe me, we know a lot more about what you are buying that you do and nearly everything you are going to buy online will be Chinese made junk.
If I reluctantly agree to install someone's own parts, they get no warranty at all. When there is a failure, who is going to determine whether it was a part failure or an installation problem. I'm not having that argument with anyone.
I supply the parts, you get a parts an labor warranty. If you supply the parts, you are probably going to be shown the door. Good shops don't play that game.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Nov 20, 2014, 4:26 PM)
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Egas
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Nov 20, 2014, 5:11 PM
Post #11 of 13
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Re: Starting motor/solenoid replacement
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Hi Hammer,
In Chicago there is/was a restaurant called Mickey's Bar and Grill that on Tuesdays let you do that specifically; bring your own steak and they'll cook it for you as well as other places for fish and such. I would supply a link to the Chicago Tribune , but they are not permitted it seems. My bad for not following rules. I apologize for that. I thought of posting the actual picture and thought "i might be breaching copy rights and so on if i do that". I saw the URL button to include them and thought it was Ok as they were pictures to show Tom how motor and solenoid were bundled up for this specific model.
I'm not going to argue about quality of things made in other countries. But i will be hard pressed to answer the question: where was the part the car shop put in my car? Goes back to trusting a shop i never been there, and having to do my homework comparing prices as Tom suggested.
Thank you for the comments and perspectives. I do believe this is very healthy exchange of opinions that do help me a lot.
oh!, and I was just going through the entire thread.. i think they are on the pricey side. They ended up chargning me $197 for labor.. The entire assy was purchased from a supplier so no remanu labor on the shop.. and they told me their hourly rate (depending on what they do) is up to 86 per hr.. so using their max rate they charged me for 2 hrs and 17 minutes of labor 
I guess I am not going back there again...but still will do comparison with a shop nearby my home (Mobile gas station with mechanic).
-egas
(This post was edited by Egas on Nov 20, 2014, 5:21 PM)
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Nov 20, 2014, 5:27 PM
Post #12 of 13
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Re: Starting motor/solenoid replacement
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We get the customers that brings their own parts in sometimes. All the boss does is add more to the labor to make up for the loss. They think they are getting a great deal, but in the end they are pretty much paying the same without the labor warranty.
I don't know if it is actually true, but the area rep for Autozone told us that the Firestick down the street jacked their labor rate up to $120/hr. They got tired of customers giving them hell because the customers found parts or tires on the internet cheaper, so Firestick jacked the labor and now sell parts for what they get them for. Not sure if that will hurt them or not.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Nov 20, 2014, 5:29 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Nov 20, 2014, 10:50 PM
Post #13 of 13
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Re: Starting motor/solenoid replacement
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Egas: Just beating on this some more. Repair shops are a biz that sells parts and installs them such that YOU the customer doesn't have to own a tool or understand diddle except how much it will cost to do what as THEY diagnosed and in a perfect job it's fixed and warrantied by that shop for a time or miles.
I (now ages and ages ago) didn't mind folks getting their own parts as it saved me the time for some situations like older and obsolete stuff or hard to find odds and ends. Universal agreement on just getting something done and fully understanding the risks.
Just your subject line suggests you don't know squat about a starter motor of the sort. I said back a few I haven't seen them sold separately unless somehow requested for some reason new or remanufactured. Yes there are reasons you might want to do just a part of an assembly not the whole thing - this isn't some collectible antique so forget that for now.
The old one or starter that doesn't work is saved as a "core" to go back and has a deposit on it. It could be cracked for some reason and you would lose the core deposit. All those cores go and get dismantles for what can be reused, cleaned up and wearing parts replaced then tested that it works. With starters most remanufactured ones (decent ones) would all have new solenoids, brushes, starter drive (gear thing) no matter what they looked like. The rebuilder really wants a good shell to fill with good parts again.
When you do enough of this as the tech or shop you get to know which brands really work best and a rebuilt part is really done well and checked as everyone loses if a part fails. Forget bargains - doing it all over again is just a total waste of your time and the shop's.
Screw the on line thing fast becoming about the only way for some things sucks. You can't touch and feel assorted parts first before wasting everyone's time that it doesn't fit properly, cheap junk parts or see a flaw then you need to ship it back which wastes valuable time too - what a PITA for all.
This is a service biz and hope job ONE is to fix something right the first time, be on time so you get your vehicle back all set and nothing to worry about except pay for the work. Again - that shop takes all responsibility. Sh*t - if they drop the dang new part on the floor and break it they deal with it. What happens when YOU brought it in gets too messy if something goes wrong for any reason.
The bring food to a restaurant is just a decent analogy. A good restaurant takes full responsibility for the quality of what they sell and how it's prepared. In the case of bringing your own steak and they overcooked it then why the fruck didn't you stay home and just do it yourself?
Cars or other these are trades and the work thereof.
Two common reasons to do things yourself. #1 is to save a buck mostly on labor and you have the time and tools for whatever you are doing. #2 to me is I WANT TO DO IT MYSELF BECAUSE I WANT TO NO MATTER THE COSTS.
From the top you were really scoping out a shop really it seemed. The auto biz has historically been high on the list of complaints for costs and plain rip offs. So could any trade or any biz. The web crap is faceless for "things" of any sort.
Back to the auto biz. As trades go it takes more training, time, huge money in tools and equipment plus a place to do it. Get cut, burned, inhale chemicals and get covered in dirt and crap working your butt off, get nothing (sometimes) but complaints about the cost and go home smelling like an exhaust pipe. That and dumb enough to do it again the next day.
Give them their due. The rip off artists will fail on their own,
Tom
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