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1985 Toyota MR2 Won't start
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lcmtvbreath4
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Mar 30, 2014, 1:37 PM
Post #1 of 12
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1985 Toyota MR2 Won't start
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Hello folks,
First the car info:
1985 Toyota MR2, 4cyl 1.6L, 120,000 miles.
I drove the car home from work Saturday afternoon (it was raining heavily.) No notable problems. This morning (Sunday, still raining) the car cranks but will not start. I sprayed starter fluid and it still won't start. I checked the spark to all 4 plugs (not with a tester, the old fashioned way by grounding it while someone cranks), and I get an orange/sometimes blue spark, but still a spark. Took off the distributor cap and it's clean looking inside, however 2 of the contacts in the cap look a tad nubbed down, while the other 2 look new. I changed the spark plugs and miles about 5,000 miles ago. Can someone point me in the right direction, or have I divulged enough info to have given away my problem? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Last time here I didn't have such great luck. By the way, I've driven this car for 10 years through every condition imaginable and never had a problem with anything. I use it for delivering pizzas, about 50-100 miles a day depending. Thanks all!
-Chuck
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Mar 30, 2014, 2:23 PM
Post #2 of 12
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Re: 1985 Toyota MR2 Won't start
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You need to do some more accurate testing.
All "crank, no start" conditions are approached in the same way. Every engine requires certain functions to be able to run. Some of these functions rely on specific components to work and some components are part of more than one function so it is important to see the whole picture to be able to conclude anything about what may have failed. Also, these functions can ONLY be tested during the failure. Any other time and they will simply test good because the problem isn't present at the moment.
If you approach this in any other way, you are merely guessing and that only serves to replace unnecessary parts and wastes money.
Every engine requires spark, fuel and compression to run. That's what we have to look for.
These are the basics that need to be tested and will give us the info required to isolate a cause.
1) Test for spark at the plug end of the wire using a spark tester. If none found, check for power supply on the + terminal of the coil with the key on.
2) Test for injector pulse using a small bulb called a noid light. If none found, check for power supply at one side of the injector with the key on.
3) Use a fuel pressure gauge to test for correct fuel pressure, also noticing if the pressure holds when key is shut off.
4) If all of these things check good, then you would need to do a complete compression test.
Once you have determined which of these functions has dropped out,
you will know which system is having the problem.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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lcmtvbreath4
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Mar 30, 2014, 2:33 PM
Post #3 of 12
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Re: 1985 Toyota MR2 Won't start
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Thank you for the reply, I will get back as soon as I check some of those out. Unfortunately I have neither a fuel pressure tester or a spark tester. I know How to see if there's pressure on the fuel line without a tester, but that won't tell me if it's holding pressure over time. Would A fuel pressure just develop overnight like that? I just checked my gas mileage the last day it drove and I get a steady 35mpg. In any case, I know that the spark should make an audible snap when testing, which I don't believe it did (will test again.) I know having the proper tools would help, (I guess I could rent them), but i guess I should be a little clearer; Is there a good way to check that stuff out without the pressure tester or spark tester? The injectors I'll have to check out asap.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 30, 2014, 2:56 PM
Post #4 of 12
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Re: 1985 Toyota MR2 Won't start
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If you are going to attempt to diagnose this yourself, you need the necessary tools. No, just seeing some pressure is not acceptable. Neither is laying a spark plug against the block to test spark. You need to perform ALL of the indicated tests using the equipment described.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 30, 2014, 3:18 PM
Post #5 of 12
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Re: 1985 Toyota MR2 Won't start
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? You seemed to have some spark and replaced fuel with starting fluid and surprised it didn't at least phart for you. Where did you spray starting fluid?
There will be more to do but nicer if you could hone in on fuel or spark or then -- eeeek move on and see if compression is good enough.
One more. Were plugs wildly wet from too much gas as in flooded badly? Just some ideas till better testing can be done,
T
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lcmtvbreath4
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Mar 31, 2014, 7:31 AM
Post #6 of 12
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Re: 1985 Toyota MR2 Won't start
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thanks for the help everyone! I took the distributor and cap completely off and made sure everything was nice and dry. then I got some of that wire dry spray and sprayed it on every connection that could be shorting. Voila! The car started right up. Every time it rains REALLY heavily this car acts up, I should learn by now: if it's raining, park it in the garage! (the louvers on the engine compartment are right over a LOT of electrical connections, including the spark plug channel the spark plugs sit down in. Very poor design!) So I'm not sure which thing it was that was causing it not to start, but now that I've dried it all up, it's fine. YAY! I can deliver pizzas on Tuesday! (I'm actually making more money delivering pizzas than when I was working for my uncle as a mechanic apprentice doing the same work the other mechanics were doing, but at 1/3rd the cost.) Most of what I did was work on newer cars. I hardly saw anything pre 1990. So, I really appreciate the advice of y'all that have seen it all before. Thanks for everything!
-Chuck
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lcmtvbreath4
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Mar 31, 2014, 7:35 AM
Post #7 of 12
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Re: 1985 Toyota MR2 Won't start
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P.S. the spark plugs and wires on the spark plug end were pretty dry. It was around the distributor that was wet. I'll prolly get a new cap for it since it's $14. But I wanted to know one more thing; are the 2 contact points inside the distributor supposed to be nubbed down? It's running fine now, but it definitely looked a little shoddy in there. Thanks!
--Chuck
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 31, 2014, 8:11 AM
Post #8 of 12
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Re: 1985 Toyota MR2 Won't start
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I was wondering why my pizza didn't show up? Just kidding. OK, you have some good info for what made it start and where. Good clues when an electrical problem is aggravated by being wet - more common with anything that is dealing with the secondaries of ignition items wherever and whatever. That means high voltage stuff that would really like the easiest way to ground and moisture does conduct electricity - save the novel on that.
Now do replace cap and rotor as you see something off now anyway. Some you don't, just hairline cracks or flaws and you seem to know it's at the cap but might not be for sure.
Your call: Do replace those items and make sure it starts and runs properly for a short time and spray same area (better at night or total darkness) just misted with usually tap water or to make water a bit dirty just add some table salt to it for the test. Sub-note is that 100% clean distilled water doesn't conduct electricity, it's the minerals in about any other source of moisture/water.
If that shows while just idling any stray sparking/arcing it could lead to plug wire or boots and might stall or run lousy so you would know you aren't done with a fix.
More: Once in a while cold metals then weather that goes warmer and humid makes things sweat out all over the place especially hard on the high voltage areas inside the distributor cap unseen at a glance of course. Happens if engine was not used and warmed up anytime before that could happen. That extreme could make good stuff misbehave.
Sorry for the book but electrical stuff just doesn't like water. Other threads with people washing by hosing down engine makes my hair stand up and they wonder why a host of issues crop up!?
Smile - I want a free extra topping now still kidding. Good luck with an old car keeping it dependable as anyone needs but no or late pizza is just too important
Tom
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lcmtvbreath4
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Mar 31, 2014, 8:46 AM
Post #9 of 12
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Re: 1985 Toyota MR2 Won't start
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UPDATE: I was running the car this morning when the cooling fan, brake, and check engine light came on. I know in that car, when the alternator goes bad the check engine, cooling fan, and brake light come on. Upon looking under the hood further, I also see a wire going to the alternator that has corroded completely through. I would say that's another good place to start eh? I will fix it and post again the progress in a few hours. Thanks for the help everyone!
-Chuck
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 31, 2014, 9:01 AM
Post #10 of 12
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Re: 1985 Toyota MR2 Won't start
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Not done yet apparently: OK - is that the heaviest gauge wire to the alternator? It might be fusible link wire and wrinkled up and maybe you can make out by marking that is what it is. I plain don't know.
As for other lights coming on not sure but likely it's not charging now if running at all. If other lights are when stalling or not running they aren't important yet.
See what you can see if that wire can have a piece spliced in OR do the whole length of it with the right wire and properly spliced*.
That means if cut, stripped back it should be soldered in and shrink wrap over the area fixed. If it appears like plain insulation was rubbing or just old and brittle first it's possible that this isn't the hardest fix.
Can't know how much for tools you have but a cheap soldering iron and shrink wrap plus some solder isn't the world. Right wire you may have to buy a whole length or by the foot, unknown for now.
See what you can see. SUKS BUT DON'T LET OVERHEAT OR GET IN TROUBLE OR STUCK OR WORSE DRIVING IT again just yet. I don't trust no fans or the other warnings and you seem to know better but if things are real you don't need an accident out of it,
T
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lcmtvbreath4
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Mar 31, 2014, 9:19 AM
Post #11 of 12
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Re: 1985 Toyota MR2 Won't start
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I know how to solder wire like a champ. I also build guitars, so I'm familiar with soldering wire. It looks the the plastic covering the bundle of wires going to the alt. got peeled back a bit. All the other wires look fine and intact. It appears the jacket on the broken wire corroded and fell away exposing the wire itself. It's built up with green corrosion on both of the busted ends. There's plenty of length on the wire end of the piece, however, on the alternator side there's maybe 1 inch of wire before it gets attached to the eyelet which goes over the bolt of the alt. I'm thinking I can splice in a new piece of wire and put another eyelet on the end of it and bolt it to the alt instead of trying to reconnect the severed piece to the old bundle. I don't see why it wouldn't work. The whole bundle is bolted right to the terminal on the alt. So I'm going to lengthen the wire, put a new eyelet on it and bolt it with all the other wires back on to the alt and pray my problems are over. This car is not going back on the road till I'm sure this is all cleared up. Thanks everyone!
-Chuck
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 31, 2014, 9:42 AM
Post #12 of 12
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Re: 1985 Toyota MR2 Won't start
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Chase that wire back as just maybe it's fuse link wire just at the end? Can't know, sorry. If just ONE inch of otherwise ordinary wire just splice in the right gauge and eyelet and seems you know how OK.
The clue is the corrosion you mentioned suggests this was just that - corroded and gave up. Cut back to where it is good.
It impedes soldering in future some but suspect and known trouble spots use like WD-40 on them which will slow down that or outright stop it but at the age prevention IDK - if it was going to go it should have long ago one would think.
Check all around battery, battery connections and the wires there like tending to periodically. Plugs for fans and other assorted things that are exposed it helps.
I just have to hope that one section of wire can magically solve the problems and back to the pizza deliveries!
This generic pic/diagram shows what MIGHT be there but now doubt it - all guess work on my part as it's both too old and IDK first hand how it was designed?
Tom
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