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carver
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Oct 20, 2014, 6:00 PM
Post #1 of 12
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ignition wire short?
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Actually my car is a boat.77 Carver with ford 351 w. My question concerns the wire from the ignition switch to the coil. When I connect a test light from the battery side of the switch and ground it lights brightly. When I remove the lead from ground and connect to the ignition wire (removed from switch) it still lights but dimly. Shouldnt it not light at all? Does this indicate a short to ground? It does the same thing even if I disconnect it from the coil and elecric choke. isnt it just a wire leading from the ignition switch into the engine compartment>Any feedback appreciated
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Oct 20, 2014, 6:15 PM
Post #2 of 12
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Re: ignition wire short?
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Let's approach this differently. What are you trying to fix? What problem do you have?
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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carver
New User
Oct 20, 2014, 7:05 PM
Post #3 of 12
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Re: ignition wire short?
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Well it runs well once it starts but it is very difficult to start. Also it seems to only start when you let go of the key. wont start when in the start position. Fairly certain its an ignition problem. New carb, fuel pump,filters etc. Starting fluid does nothing. Checked for spark during cranking and got none. Replaced points and condensor with magnetic electronic ignition, new plugs, wires,cap, rotor,coil.Set timing to10 BTC when it was running. As I said, runs really well, just a bear to start.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Oct 20, 2014, 10:46 PM
Post #4 of 12
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Re: ignition wire short?
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Total warning with boats sport. You may have way overdone anything intended changing out ignition from points which carried on long after this model year in marine applications for good reasons.
Why did you dump point for electronic ignition? Differently wired thru a resistor not direct so you screwed up already. No real gain in changing OE intentions and all risk. If you can't deal with checking and setting points then get out of boating in fact FORD in general got out of making engines for marine use TMK. Many didn't use distributors used in land vehicles at all for good reasons.
#1 with boats is NO SPARKS on anything. Special electric everything all thru them or risk the big bang - kaBoooom!
Solenoids, alternators, starters, ignition, plain switches all thru it are NOT automotive yet look about the same and some work. 351W suggests an inboard enclosed engine or one of a dual screw set up in bilge. Really want a fire with that much fuel around?
T
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Oct 21, 2014, 2:08 AM
Post #5 of 12
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Re: ignition wire short?
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What is the situation here? Did you do this mod yourself? Do you have a wiring diagram for the boat or the new ignition system?
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Oct 21, 2014, 2:09 AM)
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kev2
Veteran
Oct 21, 2014, 8:57 AM
Post #6 of 12
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Re: ignition wire short?
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did you check for saprk at several plugs?
Is this a carb or injected engine?
As hammer asked - wiring diagram for new ignition system-
is there just the one wire -neg coil to dist?
the dist would also need 12v and a ground - yes?
Think of the system this way-
The coil will appear as a path to ground, therefor the dimlight- when the ground is opened (points open) the electron flow will jump and produce the spark we want...
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kev2
Veteran
Oct 21, 2014, 9:06 AM
Post #7 of 12
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Re: ignition wire short?
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trying to remember old 'points' systems - coming back slowly
Do you have 2 wires on the coil + terminal?
often one was 12v used only to START...
the other was a reduced voltage used only in RUN...
A ballast resistor OR a resistor wire- easy test with a DVOM.
the new ign may require a specific voltage - It was NOT unuasual for one of those feeds to be open causing something like you describe...
again my colleagues question - wiring diagram?
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Oct 21, 2014, 9:09 AM
Post #8 of 12
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Re: ignition wire short?
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The easy solution is to take that junk out and put it back they way it ran properly and end the foolishness.
Points start on full bat+ voltage obviously not getting that and electronic get that all the time which is why it runs when you let go of the key.
IDK exactly what set up you have now but it's not compatible with the rest of the system clearly. Look at the coil. Bet it has two smaller connections for start mode and for run mode and is all confused now as it probably doesn't know what to do with that "S" vs "R" mode now,
T
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Oct 21, 2014, 9:12 AM
Post #9 of 12
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Re: ignition wire short?
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Beat me with post kev2. Points run on lower voltage while running. 6v vehicles didn't need that, 12v ignitions w points did. Said that right away it's resisted down for running "R" and full for "S" but running it's lowering the voltage and is killing this new set up slowly or instantly,
T
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carver
New User
Oct 21, 2014, 1:36 PM
Post #10 of 12
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Re: ignition wire short?
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Thanks for the input guys ( and constructive criticism ) I think. First off, the electronic ignition is a MARINE simple slide onto the dist shaft under the rotor. A magnetic pickup goes into the hole where the points were attached. Many many boaters are using these. Also it is the original marine dist. The coil was purchased (MARINE) with the ignition. It has internal resistor. The instructions were to remove the ballast resistor which I did. All these were specific to my engine. Ford went to electronic ignition the following year in it's marine ( Volvo Penta ) applications. All I was attempting to do was slightly update not blow up. Today after jumper wiring from the battery to the coil it fired up immediately and ran perfectly. I re-started it numerous times without a problem. Tomorrow I am going to run a new wire from the ignition switch to the coil. Pretty much what I expected, just wanted a little education on using a test light. Thanks guys
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Oct 21, 2014, 2:04 PM
Post #11 of 12
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Re: ignition wire short?
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OK - Learn how the standard wiring for 12v ignition is set up near universally for distributors with points and condenser. Know that points transfer metal if voltage isn't correct so it's run thru a resistor for "RUN" and all battery power for start mode that switches right when you let go of the key.
Now you've altered that but direct wiring is now according to what you purchased to do this NOT as intended which is why it doesn't work! THERE IS ZERO PERFORMANCE BENEFIT OF ELECTRONIC VS POINTS STYLE IGNITION FOR BOATING APPLICATIONS unless you are specifically going for some new performance which was already at hand by the time this boat was made new but would be higher voltage and harder to prevent expositions from stray sparks so boats were late on this. Ignitions are by the Volvo Penta makers and engineers not FORD who just made the block same as others.
I've taken OUT more nutty set ups mostly cars to make them run better the way they were designed mostly CDI crap (capacitor discharge ignitions) that kept points AND put that in. They didn't gain a thing except you do check points at least once a year or more all depending on time and exposure to elements how used.
Just because "everyone" does it doesn't mean squat. I've owned and driven small thru mega million buck yachts extensively and worst problem was telling anyone you are a mechanic! There's always some stupid something wrong with a boat aptly named a hole into the water into which one pours MONEY bei it a stink potter (power boat) or blow boat (sail boat) they all cost bucks and are a lot of work as you must know.
Gotta go. Pay attention to instructions from the maker if you must proceed with this but expect no benefit,
Tom
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Oct 21, 2014, 4:58 PM
Post #12 of 12
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Re: ignition wire short?
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I think you're on the right track. You need power out of the ignition switch to both the module and the coil in both "start" and "run' positions.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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