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dewayne
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Feb 24, 2014, 2:05 AM
Post #1 of 23
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2003 toyota celica gt
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changed timing chain. still have misfire #3 and #4 cylinder. have codes po300,po303,po304, po171. PLEASE advise.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Feb 24, 2014, 5:33 AM
Post #2 of 23
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Re: 2003 toyota celica gt
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Why did you change the timing chain? Is it a dead miss or miss under load?
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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dewayne
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Feb 24, 2014, 2:04 PM
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Re: 2003 toyota celica gt
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[its my sons car and a mechanic had told him he needed to change it do to a misfire. so I did. but the misfire is still there. its there when I start the car and have it parked.
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dewayne
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Feb 24, 2014, 2:09 PM
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Re: 2003 toyota celica gt
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I don't know what you mean by dead miss.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Feb 24, 2014, 2:29 PM
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Re: 2003 toyota celica gt
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That will be the first time in 40 years I have ever seen a timing chain cause a misfire.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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dewayne
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Feb 24, 2014, 6:33 PM
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Re: 2003 toyota celica gt
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OK. would you have any suggestions on what I should do considering the codes I provided above?
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Sidom
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Feb 24, 2014, 8:55 PM
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Re: 2003 toyota celica gt
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All the info on this problem would be helpful......I hope you didn't just start off with a timing chain...
You have a couple of common misfire codes, that are probably the reason for the other 2 codes being set...
Usually you start off with a new set of plugs to see if that clears things up & if not then swap a couple of coils & injectors to see if the miss moves, followed up by a few other tests that are way easier to do than changing a timing chain....
A dead miss is a miss that is there all the time, under all driving conditions as opposed to an intermittent miss that sometimes is there and sometimes it isn't.....
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dewayne
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Feb 25, 2014, 4:25 AM
Post #8 of 23
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Re: 2003 toyota celica gt
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the coils had been changed prior to the timing chain being changed. tonight I moved the coil wires. #3 to #1, #4 to #2, #1 to #3, #2 to #4. Started engine and let it run a little. Still could feel the miss. Turned off the engine and took a reading with the OBDII. Codes shown: P0300, P0301, P0304. I moved the coils again. #1 to #2, #2 to #1, #3 to #4, #4 to #3. I started the engine again. The miss seems to have gone. I turned off the engine and took another reading. Codes shown: P0171 PND Bank 1 system to lean. What do you suggest I do now? I also want to thank you very much for your time and sharing your knowledge.
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Sidom
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Feb 25, 2014, 9:44 PM
Post #9 of 23
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Re: 2003 toyota celica gt
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Well....One of the misses seem to have moved with the swap and one stayed the same.....It would sound like you had 1 bad coil & a different problem on 4 but if with all the swapping around, its running good now....It might have been some bad connections.....
If it's running good, with no misses & you are still getting a P0171, that's a lean codes so make sure there are no vacuum leaks or any false air getting past the mass air flow senor.....Just check all the hoses, including the one from the air cleaner for rips or tears.....Also it would hurt to get a can of mass air flow cleaner and clean the sensor wire...When those get too dirty, they can set those codes or cause some running problems....
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dewayne
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Feb 25, 2014, 11:38 PM
Post #10 of 23
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Re: 2003 toyota celica gt
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Thank You Very Much! I will check all the hoses and clean the MAF as you have suggested. I appreciate your time and info. Hopefully the problem will be remedied.
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dewayne
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Mar 3, 2014, 7:15 PM
Post #11 of 23
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Re: 2003 toyota celica gt
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Well here i am again. I cleaned the MAF sensor, checked the hoses and tested a couple VCV's. I found that the VCV for the EVAP wasnt working so I ordered another one from Autozone. The one I got from them didnt look like the one I had and the hose connections were smaller. I went back to them where we searched their books till we found one that looked like the one i had. They told me it was for a 1998 celica. I ordered it anyway and it was the one i wanted. I installed it hopeing that would take care of the problem. I started the car and found the misfires were back. This time the codes were P0300, P0301, P0303 and P0304. I cleared the codes and decided to start the car again and let it run for a while to see if the misfires would go away. At first I still had the misfires. Then they went away while idling in park but when I would put it in gear I would get an intermitent mis. I let it run some more and checked again to see if the mis was there while in gear. It seemed to have gone away. I turned off the vehicle and took a reading with the OBDII. It showed NO codes. This was last night. It was getting late so I figure I will go home tonight when I get off work, start it again and see if the misfires are back. ANY SUGESTIONS??? Thank You! Also I took a stethoscope to listen for vacuum leaks around the manifold I dont believe I heard any.
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nickwarner
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Mar 3, 2014, 11:44 PM
Post #12 of 23
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Re: 2003 toyota celica gt
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Does this scan tool you are using show you live data or codes only? Really would like to see what the fuel trims are at. Does your check engine light flash while driving? What is your fuel pressure at?
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GC
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Mar 4, 2014, 1:23 PM
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Re: 2003 toyota celica gt
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My $.02 - How many miles on this vehicle? Any modifications done or all stock?
____________________________________________________
Willing to help, willing to learn... Rob
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dewayne
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Mar 4, 2014, 1:29 PM
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Re: 2003 toyota celica gt
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It gives a code and what the malfunction is. The check engine light hasn't came on the last couple times I started it. I don't know what the fuel pressure is at or the fuel trims. I started it again last night. It went up to 1900 rpm, after about 20 sec it dropped to 1500rpm and had an intermittent miss. After 2 min it went to 1400rpm, 3min 1300rpm, 4min 1200rpm, 5min 1100rpm, still with slight miss, 1000rpm at 6min, 900rpm at 7min, 750rpm at 7.5min with no miss, idling steady. At 11min I placed it in drive, there was a consistent miss. I placed it in neutral, it had a intermittent miss. I placed it in park turned it off and took a reading with the OBDII. There were no codes.
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dewayne
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Mar 4, 2014, 6:07 PM
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Around 190K miles. No mods.
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nickwarner
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Mar 5, 2014, 12:57 AM
Post #16 of 23
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Re: 2003 toyota celica gt
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It you punch it down to the floor while driving does it miss?
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dewayne
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Mar 5, 2014, 1:23 PM
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I haven't taken it for a drive. Its been in my garage for the past three weeks. Ive been trying to do a process of elimination. I also have the wheel off doing some body work around the right front fender and changed the rotors and brakes. I work 2pm to 11:30pm. When I get home tonight I will take it for a drive. Thank you!
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dewayne
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Mar 6, 2014, 6:41 AM
Post #18 of 23
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Re: 2003 toyota celica gt
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(This post was edited by dewayne on Mar 9, 2014, 11:38 PM)
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dewayne
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Mar 9, 2014, 11:35 PM
Post #19 of 23
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Re: 2003 toyota celica gt
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I took the car for a drive. At about 40 mph I floored the throttle. There was a split second delay and then it took of like it should. (hauled a@@) Whenever I would come to a stop it seemed like it was going to die. I noticed a rattle in the engine when I gunned it. We had a compression test about a month ago. It was good. Im assuming the rattle is from a lifter. When I got home I hooked up the OBDII to read any codes. It read as follows: CODES:P0302 Pnd , cylinder 2 misfire detected, Intake (A) Camshaft position timing-over-retarded (Bank 1). MIL STATUS: Mil off I/M Monitors: misfire ready,fuel system ready, comprehend comp ready, catalyst not ready, evap system ready, oxygen sensor ready, htd o2 sensor ready FREEZE FRAME DATA: no freeze frames..... Now I rechecked the timing marks of the crankshaft and camshaft sprockets. They are correct. I also checked the valve clearances. They are within the required clearances.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 10, 2014, 4:51 AM
Post #20 of 23
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Re: 2003 toyota celica gt
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Just because you are getting a VVT code doesn't mean the chain was installed incorrectly. You could have a VVT problem such as a phaser or hydraulic problem. Someone is going to have to test the VVT system.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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dewayne
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Mar 10, 2014, 9:14 PM
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I appreciate your help. I have been trying to locate this phaser and what might could be the hydraulic problem. But I cant find a part called a phaser. And as far as hydraulic, I have seen mentioned a "hydraulic actuator" aka: "solenoid actuator" or "variable timing solenoid", would this be what you are refering too? Is testing the VVT system something I could do on my own? If so, what tools would I need and what would be the testing procedure?
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 11, 2014, 3:43 PM
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Re: 2003 toyota celica gt
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Phaser is another name for the VVT actuator that is mounted to the front of the intake cam sprocket. The oil control valve supplies oil to the actuator to retard or advance the intake cam. The engine controller is watching the actual intake cam position via the cam sensor signal. It then compares the cam and crank sensors' signal relationship to determine the camshaft's actual position. If the cam's position doesn't match what the controller wants it to be at, it will set that p0012 code.
Your going to need high end scan tool to look at data stream information for the camshaft desired and actual angles. Then you need to actuate the oil control valve to see if the actuator responds correctly. VVT systems are not hard to troubleshoot for a pro, but without the special equipment it is almost near impossible to determine the culprit.
Too bad you can't find a shop that has someone with a lab scope to capture a waveform of the crank and cam sensor signals to see if they are in sync. Of course, that won't tell you if the exhaust cam is off, but it is better than ripping the timing cover off.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Mar 11, 2014, 3:44 PM)
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dewayne
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Mar 11, 2014, 7:39 PM
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THANK YOU VERY MUCH for sharing your knowledge and your time. Since my last posting I have been learning about the VVT-I system. I did locate the phaser and the oil control valve. Also I removed the throttle body, cleaned it and removed the intake manifold in order to replace the gasket. Plus did a little body work. I am going to order new gaskets and reinstall the intake manifold and throttle body. I guess now would be a good time to actuate the oil control valve to check the response. And I still need to check the fuel pressure. So im going to see if I can obtain the high end scan tool, a fuel pressure gauge and see if I can hook up with a lab scope. And do more body work. Thanks again! I will be talking to you. HOPE YOU HAVE A GREAT DAY!
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