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dr.donut
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Dec 9, 2016, 7:39 AM
Post #1 of 39
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2002 civic no start
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I have a 2002 honda cicvic 1.7 that would turn over but not fire , after 30 mins. or so it would start and you wouldn't have a problem for a week or two then it would do the same thing . Now it doesn't fire and I want to check for spark , there's 3 wires to each coil pack black , black with white and one different for each pack . I have a basic multi tester can I test for a signal at one of those wires for spark ? I was going to rig up a jump wire but the plugs are buried and I don't want to screw up the coil pack stem . Thanks
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Discretesignals
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Dec 9, 2016, 7:59 AM
Post #2 of 39
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Re: 2002 civic no start
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Are there any trouble codes stored in the engine computer?
Pull the coil pencil out of the spark plug well, leave its connector plugged in, install a spark tester on the end of the boot, and crank the engine. You won't be able to know if there is spark by checking voltage at the coil connector because the transistor is inside the coil and you can't see primary voltage on those.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Dec 9, 2016, 8:01 AM)
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dr.donut
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Dec 9, 2016, 9:05 AM
Post #3 of 39
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Re: 2002 civic no start
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I used an inline 20 A bus fuse ,one end into the coil pencil and the other on the batt neg and it did not fry . so I don't have any spark , I probably couldn't see the tester while in the car cranking it anyway but I think the fuse should have burnedDo I check the ignition module , or just replace it ?
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 9, 2016, 9:10 AM
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Re: 2002 civic no start
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You really should see if any codes are present.
You'll need to test for spark using that adjustable spark tester. Have someone crank the engine while you watch. Running a wire from the coil to the battery negative and seeing if a fuse blows isn't the correct procedure to test for the coil's ability to produce a healthy spark. There isn't enough amperage on the secondary side to blow the fuse even when the coil is firing.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Dec 9, 2016, 9:11 AM)
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dr.donut
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Dec 9, 2016, 9:25 AM
Post #5 of 39
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Re: 2002 civic no start
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Right . I don't have a code reader and you can pay from $20** to $200** for one ,the local parts store doesn't loan them out , and if they did they don't want you taking them out of the lot so will the bargain reader suffice or buy the better ? I've heard of one that works on an I phone .
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Discretesignals
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Dec 9, 2016, 9:59 AM
Post #6 of 39
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Re: 2002 civic no start
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You can buy the OBD2 code readers fairly cheap. You just want to see if there are any trouble codes stored that might be related to your no start. That might give you direction.
When it doesn't want to start does the check engine light come on when you turn on the ignition? The check engine light should do a bulb check when you turn the ignition on.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Dec 9, 2016, 10:01 AM)
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Hammer Time
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Dec 9, 2016, 10:05 AM
Post #7 of 39
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Re: 2002 civic no start
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If you expect to be doing your own repairs a code reader is one of the first things you need to buy.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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dr.donut
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Dec 9, 2016, 10:56 AM
Post #8 of 39
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Re: 2002 civic no start
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No cel upon cranking , after I bought it in mid oct 2016 there was a code that came up and after a few days went away, the guy I bought it from said he was a mech. and said he would be good for the inspection sticker when I was ready ,here in ny you don't pass if there is a code up I don't know if he cared about it or what nys thinks about it but he did say he had replaced the cam sensor , I'll bet he knew about this problem but I ain't complaining . Took the batt (interstate) out to bring it in to charge , pulled the caps and the elctrolight in one cell was froze another was cloudy , being it's not maintenance free with removable caps it's probably over the hill and ready to die right ? The car cranked over just fine but when we used drivers window up and down it was sluggish , we'll see how it takes a charge ,
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 9, 2016, 1:54 PM
Post #9 of 39
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Re: 2002 civic no start
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If you don't see a CEL when you turn the ignition to on (not cranking), when it doesn't want to start, that usually means the ECU isn't alive. If the CEL comes on when you turn the ignition on, when it doesn't have the starting issue, that would eliminate the bulb being burnt out or a CEL circuit issue.
The main relay is a common issue causing the ECU to not be powered up and no starts. To confirm the engine ECU isn't alive with the key on measure with a volt meter to see if you have a 5 volt reference at the MAP sensor (yellow/red wire) with the key on.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Dec 9, 2016, 1:54 PM)
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dr.donut
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Dec 9, 2016, 2:26 PM
Post #10 of 39
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Re: 2002 civic no start
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cel is on with key on engine off , the batt is inside but one cell is still "frozen " I should have that charged by morning then check codes and spark .I got the obdII with abs eobd , m/i , I could have gotten an in line spark tester but you said adjustable and I don't think it was ,an adjustable one will be in tonight but I won't see them till 7:30 sat. morn. If the batt had a bad cell I don't think it would crank the engine normally , we'll see .
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dr.donut
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Dec 10, 2016, 7:59 AM
Post #11 of 39
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Re: 2002 civic no start
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Topped off dry cells and The batt took a charge , , put it in this morning and the honda started , I have the spark tester and I'm going to do the tests , the package didn't list a setting for any hondas what kind of voltage can I expect ? Can I use the batt neg for the ground ? I can hook it on the plug also . It's going to want to start so I'll shut it right off once I get a reading . Thanks again .
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 10, 2016, 8:12 AM
Post #12 of 39
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Re: 2002 civic no start
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There hasn't been a battery made in ages you could properly even check electrolyte level - all sealed.
Those you could if you found one cell bad couldn't buy just one cell nor electrolyte once (more like the 1960s and older) fix batteries. That battery is junk and should be properly disposed of before it shorts out and can really spike demands from alternators and wreck wiring up to blow up - yes those did explode if we are talking about that type of battery.
Think hard about that for the cost of a current designed battery,
T
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dr.donut
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Dec 10, 2016, 8:20 AM
Post #13 of 39
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Re: 2002 civic no start
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Sounds like a plan
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Tom Greenleaf
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Dec 10, 2016, 8:57 AM
Post #14 of 39
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Re: 2002 civic no start
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Just the history: Now ages ago you bought batteries dry and were filled when you purchased it which then becomes is "NEW" date. Now all are pre-filled and dated when done. Some still had caps, 3 cells at a time you had to break to add water but did go back on.
It's so freaking long ago - post and during the great depression times you fixed all batteries not toss them out. Cells would flake normally and do now just can't do anything about it. That cell goes dry or shorts out.
Archived: When then happened you took the whole top off and pulled out all cells connected by brass in series to make 12V out of 6 cells. Clean out bottom of casing with the bad one replaced and fill again with electrolyte. Good to go but still wasn't new. Dangerous then and not done anymore at all - period.
It worked and had to do that is why not because it was best.
Sorry but am that old to remember that! Let's not go there.
Pertinence now. Battery is still same idea and flakes like dandruff to bottom and stays there till it shorts out hopefully complete and harmlessly so no question it's no good. The problem is that pile of flakes is a load on it so while running just hitting a bump (they hate that) shorts, alternator goes berserk wildly trying to charge a dead short for just seconds burns out wires, might send out spikes of very high voltage in a computer controlled vehicle! Yikes.
BTW - It will ruin your battery charger too trying to charge one if all goes wrong.
Sorry for the total antique info but those days were a must to do and a must to be done with now. I tried - it's hard to even google this out what was done as even owning a camera was a novelty!
T
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dr.donut
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Dec 19, 2016, 11:49 AM
Post #15 of 39
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Re: 2002 civic no start
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Got the new batt. starts right up , got the OBDII there were no codes ,got the spark tester and when it wouldn't start I pulled the #1 coil stem and it was dripping with oil ,next day it started and I got it in the driveway pulled the others and they were greasy but not oily , removed the oil filler cap to take a look and there was a puddle of oil ,the thing runs good and we've put a lot of miles on it so how bad can this be ? The guy said he did the head gasket but it looks like thats all he did was the gasket . What do yous guys think ?
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dr.donut
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Dec 19, 2016, 1:56 PM
Post #17 of 39
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Re: 2002 civic no start
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I looked for the codes a few days after the batt was put in and after a no start issue , I had to move it for the parking laws we were going to push it in the driveway to see if there was spark but it started up , I can't test it if it runs , I can try for codes again but I think I have another issue with the oil on the #1 plug
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 19, 2016, 2:19 PM
Post #18 of 39
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Re: 2002 civic no start
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Quote dr. donut: ">>removed the oil filler cap to take a look and there was a puddle of oil ,the thing runs good and we've put a lot of miles on it so how bad can this be ?<<"
Just what exactly do you mean by that? It matters totally. If this engine can't return oil to oil pan to be pumped again there's a wild problem going on with passive return holes plugged up! That IMO can only happen if holes are obstructed usually by sludge but could be any debris preventing it. All bets off as you might read oil level as low and keep adding and it isn't all in the pan so way overfilled by mistake possible.
I can't know but at some point all sorts of other functions could shut down. Begs the question now - is this engine a death by sludge thing or was the oil you saw just some normal oil looking through the oil filler?
T
(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Dec 19, 2016, 2:21 PM)
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dr.donut
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Dec 19, 2016, 7:45 PM
Post #19 of 39
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Re: 2002 civic no start
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Oil was lying in any low areas on top of the head around the rockers (puddles), not real deep but it should flow down a weep hole like you said , I know it doesn't belong around the spark plug , might as well take that cover off and see ,there's no telling what's there ,I'll pull the cap and see if there's oil still there then I'll see if it starts , try and find the problem if it doesn't , you think something might be damaged if I drive it .?
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 20, 2016, 2:15 AM
Post #20 of 39
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Re: 2002 civic no start
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It's probably normal to see some oil in spots. If it couldn't return to oil pan this game is over if due to sludge if that at all.
Oil found around spark plug boots is not an indication of this but more often the valve cover gasket and any sealing rings for the spark plugs.
This being WAY overfilled with oil is NOT the most likely problem if your checking and observations are correct on the oil level both quickly after it has been run and after perhaps a 1/2 hour or less on level surface should be close,
T
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dr.donut
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Jan 11, 2017, 3:45 PM
Post #21 of 39
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Re: 2002 civic no start
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Had the no start issue this morn. after a new Alt. on fri. my son did all his running around , day and night near and far with no problems .so this morn .we tested for spark, Now when I first got the spark tester I hooked it up to see what normal spark would be ,started the car and it was arcing easily an inch on anything it could and I don't recall seeing anything in the tube .. I used a jumper wire inside the coil stem to the top of the tester as it didn't seem to go all the way in the coil stem , but like I said it was a good spark , This morning I had the jumper but couldn't find the tester so we went with the wire only and being near a ground it should have arced but it did not ,,I held it with my hand closer and got nothing , then I held it and grounded it out with my hand and got zapped . After some business I got back to check out the car and it started , when I got some help I got the spark tester hooked up and got spark between 20 and 30 (25) , went back out to scan codes and there were none . So I"m calling weak spark on this cause when it wouldn't start I got no noticeable spark ,, if there is a component that is not to pricey I don't mind replacing it rather than wait till next time . The oil at the bottom of coil # 1 was not there at all, clean actually , but of course there is some kind of leak . I took off the air cleaner assembly looking for the fuel test valve and found none ,I did see both fuel lines go to the firewall from the rail looks like the + one is a special disconnect and the return has only hose clamps , need a new air filter though.
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dr.donut
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Feb 11, 2017, 7:19 AM
Post #22 of 39
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Re: 2002 civic no start
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It's been a month without any problems , the Alt. was replaced on 1/6 and the last no start issue was 1/11 . All I did after the last time was trace the wire harness from the coils to the firewall on the pass. side . There are a few components there so I doused the bolts with W-d40 to prep things to check for any apparent corrosion or problems there in the future , I've heard the main relays are a problem on this model and thats what one part looks like . Not a lot of free time to simply check things out much as I'd like to although thats how you come across preventive maintenance problems . the cars been good I ain't complaining . thanks again ., .
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dr.donut
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Aug 27, 2017, 3:49 AM
Post #23 of 39
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Re: 2002 civic no start
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would the keys from 2002 on this car have a chip of some kind because come to find out that one key starts the car and the other does not , both work in the ignition and engage the starter but only one will start the car . Did this a dozen times and sure enough that's the case .
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 27, 2017, 5:14 AM
Post #24 of 39
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Re: 2002 civic no start
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Immobilizer System
How the Circuit Works
The immobilizer system is designed to prevent the car from being started without the owner's ignition key. If an attempt is made to start the car with any other key, the immobilizer system will disable the car's fuel supply.
The immobilizer system consists of the ignition key, immobilizer control unit-receiver, immobilizer indicator light, PGM-FI main relays, injector relay (GX), fuel pump (except GX), fuel tank internal solenoid valve (GX), and the ECM/PCM.
With the ignition switch in ON (II) or START (III), the immobilizer
control unit-receiver and the ECM/PCM receive an "ignition on" signal
through fuse 6 and the PGM-FI main relay 1. The ECM/PCM then sends power
to the ignition key transponder through the immobilizer control
unit-receiver. The transponder then sends a coded signal back to the
ECM/PCM through the receiver. If the signal is correct, the ECM/PCM will
energize the car's fuel supply system by grounding the PGM-FI main
relay 2 (except GX) or injector relay (GX). The immobilizer indicator
light flashes a code to indicate that the correct key has been inserted.
If the ignition key signal is not correct, the ECM/PCM will not
energize the car's fuel supply system by not grounding the PGM-FI main
relay 2 (except GX) or injector relay (GX). The immobilizer indicator
light then flashes a code to indicate that an incorrect key has been
inserted.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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dr.donut
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Aug 27, 2017, 7:15 AM
Post #25 of 39
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Re: 2002 civic no start
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O.K. thanks much , I wouldn't think someone would want to steal my crappy little car , but I would like a back up key so I imagine the dealer is the place to go ? a lock smith probably doesn't do that kind of work ?
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