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400 small block 97 camaro
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mike zieman
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Sep 21, 2010, 7:58 AM
Post #1 of 12
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400 small block 97 camaro
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my freind has a 400 small block 2 bolt main wants to put it in his 97 camaro i keep on telling him its alot of work can u give some pros and cons so i can show him what kind of job he is looking at
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DanD
Veteran
/ Moderator
Sep 21, 2010, 9:09 AM
Post #2 of 12
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Re: 400 small block 97 camaro
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If he’s going old school as in forgetting about the fuel injection and computer controls; stuff it in with a carb and an old HEI distributor and off you go.
But the car will be illegal because he has tampered with the emission devices and could be looking at a considerable sized fine for his efforts. As for attempting to connect all the electronics and fuel injection; he had better have a mechanical, automotive and electronics engineering degree behind him to get the thing to work and pass emissions.
Dan.
Canadian "EH"
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marinejunkie37
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Sep 27, 2010, 6:52 AM
Post #3 of 12
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Re: 400 small block 97 camaro
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I agree with Dan, If you just stuff and go, you can squeak by with the emissions depending how you set it up. I replaced the old 305 with a 350 4 bolt main in an 82 Z28. The motor was a crate from GM. It is a rather easy swap but look at the performance companies for your emission friendly parts. Edlebrock and Holley have come a long way from the old muscle car days.
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marinejunkie37
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Sep 27, 2010, 7:41 AM
Post #5 of 12
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Re: 400 small block 97 camaro
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If it is licensed correctly- I have yet to see a fine for this. All cover emissions but some states will allow a "modified" vehicle on the street as long as the emissions fall below the level. Also, depending what state you are in- you will have problems at the inspection station (especially in CA and NY) regardless of the mod. But, again- the performance companies have done a lot in this area now- you can get emission friendly parts to beef up your car- my camaro is proof of this and I live in NY. 
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Sep 27, 2010, 7:46 AM
Post #6 of 12
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Re: 400 small block 97 camaro
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The 97 Camaro is a Federally emissions certified vehicle. Modifying the emissions in any way is against Federal. How often it gets enforced is immaterial. It is illegal and immediate grounds for fine and/or inspection failure.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Sep 27, 2010, 7:59 AM)
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marinejunkie37
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Sep 27, 2010, 7:59 AM
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Re: 400 small block 97 camaro
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I know what you are saying and you have to give the correct answer. Just for the sake of saying, I work for the federal government and I am not saying that he should do anything illegal- I am saying that he "CAN" do this legally through his state. I am also saying that the performance companies make options to allow for this. It is just like removing a 6cyl engine and replacing it with a V8. You can do it if you do it "right" and that means researching his specific state to find out what he has to do. Just to simply say that "YOU CAN'T" is wrong and simply not true. We are both car guys and have a difference of opinion which is ok, but give the guy options not just "legal" definitions.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Sep 27, 2010, 8:04 AM
Post #8 of 12
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Re: 400 small block 97 camaro
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No, you are wrong. You cannot modify that certified vehicle and pass emissions or even drive it on US highways.
You may be thinking about a home made vehicle, a vehicle manufactured before emissions regulations or a vehicle, made from scratch that would have to be assigned a VIN# and meet all safety and emissions requirements before inspection but that Camaro CANNOT be modified legally.
Please refrain from giving this ill informed advice in the future.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Sep 27, 2010, 8:28 AM)
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marinejunkie37
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Sep 27, 2010, 8:07 AM
Post #9 of 12
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Re: 400 small block 97 camaro
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Thank you for your comment and advise but I disagree. I work in both industries- auto and law. Legally you can if you do the research. We can agree to disagree!
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Sep 27, 2010, 8:26 AM
Post #10 of 12
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Re: 400 small block 97 camaro
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Well, then maybe you would like to read this.
Supplemental Information
Potential Tampering Liability Associated with Fuel Economy Retrofit Devices
The federal tampering prohibition is contained in section 203(a)(3) of the Clean Air Act (Act), 42
U.S.C. 7522(a)(3). Section 203(a)(3)(A) of the Act prohibits any person from removing or
rendering inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in any motor vehicle in
compliance with regulations under Title II of the Act (i.e., regulations requiring certification that
vehicles meet federal emissions standards). The maximum civil penalty for a violation of this
section by a manufacturer or dealer is $25,000; for any other person, $2,500.
Section 203(a)(3)(B) of the Act prohibits any person from manufacturing or selling, or offering to
sell, or installing, any part or component intended for use with, or as part of, any motor vehicle or
motor vehicle engine where a principal effect of the part or component is to bypass, defeat, or
render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor
vehicle engine, and where the person knows or should know that such part or component is being
offered for sale or is being installed for such use. The maximum civil penalty for a violation of
this section is $2,500.
Installing any device, system or part(s) which affect the fuel delivery rate or the combustion
process would be expected to affect elements of design of the emissions control system.
Accordingly, any change from the original certified configuration of a vehicle such as adding a
system or parts that affect the fuel delivery rate or the combustion process, or the manufacture,
sale of, or installation of, aftermarket parts or systems which are not equivalent to the original
equipment could be considered violations of section 203(a)(3) of the Act.
ENFORCEMENT
However, EPA has established an enforcement policy, Mobile Source Enforcement Memorandum No. 1A
(Memorandum 1A), to provide guidance to the public to reduce the uncertainty regarding
potential liability under section 203(a)(3) of the Act for using or selling aftermarket parts or
systems, or making adjustments or alterations to parts or system parameters.
Basically, Memorandum 1A states that EPA will not consider any modification to a certified
emissions control configuration to be a violation of the tampering prohibition if there is a
reasonable basis for knowing that emissions are not adversely affected. In many cases, durability
aging and emissions testing according to the FTP would be necessary to make this determination.
There are two different methods for establishing a reasonable basis for knowing that emissions
are not adversely affected by the installation of a retrofit device: 1) the installer knows of, or the manufacturer of the device represents in writing, that FTP emission tests have been performed as
prescribed in 40 CFR 86 showing that the device does not cause similar vehicles to fail to meet
applicable emission standards for their useful life; or 2) a federal, state or local environmental
control agency expressly represents that a reasonable basis exists. Such an agency determination
is limited to the geographic area over which that agency has jurisdiction. Some states, such as
California, have additional requirements.
If the results of EPA emission testing of a retrofit device show that any of the regulated
emissions increase (even though other regulated emissions may have decreased), EPA will
publish a Federal Register Notice (Notice) explaining the legal implications of those findings on
persons engaged in the business of servicing, repairing, selling, leasing, or trading motor
vehicles, fleet operators, new car dealers and individuals. The Notice will alert the regulated
parties that the installation of such a device by them may be deemed to be a violation of section
203(a)(3) of the Act.
EPA does not have a mandatory, formal program to evaluate and make determinations of
compliance of aftermarket parts with Memorandum 1A. Although EPA has informally evaluated
compliance information in the past, because of current budget cuts and resource constraints we
are not routinely reviewing information showing compliance with Memorandum 1A .While
compliance with Memorandum 1A is required, submission of the information to us is not
required unless we request the information to verify compliance. We emphasize, however, that
our lack of review of the information does not relieve any one from responsibility to comply with
Memorandum 1A or liability for violations of section 203(a)(3) and Memorandum 1A.
The results of an FTP test are valid only for similar vehicles. Therefore, the test fleet should be
diverse and large enough to provide an adequate data base from which conclusions can be drawn
with reasonable confidence. When appropriate, however, analyses based upon engineering
judgment can be used to determine the applicability of FTP test results to other vehicles and the
devices’ effect on the durability of the emission control systems.
The EPA’s NVFEL does not make decisions as to whether the installation of a particular retrofit
device constitutes tampering with the emission control system of a vehicle. Questions regarding
tampering or requests for copies of Memorandum 1A are handled by Steve Albrink in
Washington, DC, at 202-564-8997.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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marinejunkie37
User
Sep 27, 2010, 9:21 AM
Post #11 of 12
(2946 views)
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Re: 400 small block 97 camaro
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Thank you for re-stating the law again but again, you missed the point! If you read the law it states that "installing, any part or component intended for use with, or as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine where a principal effect of the part or component is to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine, and where the person knows or should know that such part or component is being offered for sale or is being installed for such use" is prohbited! Where did you not follow in my discussion? I stated that to do it legally you must do your research- which means- USE EMISSION CONTROLLED COMPONENTS TO BUILD THIS ENGINE and have it inspected! You are stating a law just to try and prove a point- I understand that and have seen this law before. My suggestion was not to BYPASS, DEFEAT, OR RENDER INOPERATIVE the emissions on the vehicle or change the fact that it has to have them. I suggested that he find alternative components to build this car "LEGALLY" which might be expensive! I know you are trying to get the last word but I am someone that deals with the law on a daily basis- I suggest you read what you just sent me and you will understand the error. I can appreciate you doing the research and it was received with respect for you and your career. There are options for this build and you should give him the options. Things have changed in the automotive field- especially for gear heads- rules, regs, and tests are there to help our world survive but that doesn't mean there are not options and that everything is black and white. I hope that you are not taking this post as disrespect because that is not my intention. Good luck, Respectfully submitted.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Sep 27, 2010, 10:01 AM
Post #12 of 12
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Re: 400 small block 97 camaro
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OK, I've had enough.
You would really think that someone that worked for the US Dept of Justice would know better than to post nonsense like that.
Bet you didn't realize I knew that.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Sep 27, 2010, 10:14 AM)
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