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86 Olds Cutlass Ciera misfire help
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platinumfossil
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Mar 5, 2011, 11:52 PM
Post #1 of 15
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86 Olds Cutlass Ciera misfire help
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1986 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera with 2.8L fuel injected engine and auto tranny. i've had this car for a little over a year now as a daily driver of about 30 miles/day and decided it needed a little TLC with the oil change that was due. changed the oil yesterday and went to napa website and found the correct spark plugs, wires and distributor cap for the make/model/engine i have. picked the items up and installed them this afternoon and the car ran normally. before the work the car ran pretty good for me with the occasional stall (once every few days at most) whether hot or cold engine; figured this was a minor idling issue. after the work the engine is missing and the car stalls pretty much anytime i slow down for a turn unless i keep one foot on the accelerator and one on the brake to keep the rpm's up. starts ok but will stall if i don't keep the rpm's up. i found the firing order on the autozone website and confirmed that i have the plug wires on the correct posts on the distributor cap. also noticed that my "service engine soon" light pops on after a mile or so of driving and stays on. and now the cruise control won't engage; i've never had an issue with it before. i'm about 40 minutes away from the nearest parts store so i'd like to try to figure this out without making that trip, plus my weekend is now over and i need to go to work for the next 5 days and don't want to drive the car in it's current condition. thanks in advance for all advice and suggestions, please help me out!
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 6, 2011, 6:15 AM
Post #2 of 15
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Re: 86 Olds Cutlass Ciera misfire help
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First step is to have the codes read and see why the check engoine light is on. I'm expecting that you knocked off a vacuum hose somewhere or left something unplugged.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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techforfree
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Mar 8, 2011, 10:42 AM
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Re: 86 Olds Cutlass Ciera misfire help
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Theres a pretty good chance you accidently pulled off a vacuum hose when you were tuning it up,that will cause the stalling,the check engine light and also the cruise control is vacuum controlled so it sounds they are related..look for that first.If the engine idles you can usually hear a hissing noise.Good luck..
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platinumfossil
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Mar 12, 2011, 5:53 PM
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Re: 86 Olds Cutlass Ciera misfire help
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 both of you were right on with the vacuum hose idea. after reading your posts i spent some more time under the hood and found one hose totally off of its connection and another hose that had either been beat up by me or had just worn out. either way it was in pretty bad shape with some good splits running down the sides so i got it replaced and the other one i knocked off put back on.
i did some google work and found out how to get the check engine code with a paper clip and found out it was a 32. this code is: EGR vacuum switch was closed during start-up or idle, or EGR vacuum switch did not close when EGR solenoid was commanded to close by ECM for 5 seconds.
i don't know what the EGR vacuum switch is but with the help of some autozone.com searching i figured out what the solenoid is and the one bad hose i replaced was connected right below it. i disconnected my neg cable on the battery for about 30 seconds to clear the code then went for a drive. i drove about 15 minutes with no check engine light so i think i've got all the vacuum issues taken care of. tomorrow will be the best test since i have to drive about 20 minutes each way to work.
the main issue now is that the engine is still a little rough. not as bad as before i got the vacuum hoses back in place but she still likes to stall out when slowing to a stop. it will idle better now but is still rough and it will still die sometimes. i'm debating whether i should use one of my old spark plug wires to try to find if i have a bad new one, was also thinking about doing the same thing with an old plug. basically my plan was to swap the new ones out one at a time with an old one and go for a short drive to see if there is a difference. this will be pretty time consuming and was hoping there would be an easier way to find out if there was a cylinder misfiring and which one? thanks for the help to all.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 12, 2011, 6:16 PM
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Re: 86 Olds Cutlass Ciera misfire help
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Go back and check your firing order again and make sure all the wires are seated completely. If you still have a miss, remove the plugs again and look for cracks in the porcelain.
1986 Oldsmobile Ciera
2.8 liter V-6 VIN "X" 2-bbl 
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Mar 12, 2011, 6:18 PM)
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platinumfossil
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Mar 12, 2011, 9:41 PM
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Re: 86 Olds Cutlass Ciera misfire help
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Hammer Time thanks for the quick reply and for trying to assist me with this issue.
i found a similar diagram for the firing order last week when i started having the issue because that's what i figured i screwed up. the only difference is the diagram i found wasn't so handily color coded.  the issue i have with both of the diagrams is that the posts are not perfectly aligned against the engine like the diagram shows. for example, the post for #2 in the diagram is at the 12 o'clock position, well when looking at them in real life it's more like at about 11 o'clock.
i will double check tomorrow after work and maybe start pulling plugs to look for a fouled or cracked one then i'll post up an update. i just hate to dig back in there too far because the vacuum hoses are in pretty bad shape. i didn't realize they were so bad until i started chasing them looking for a leak. also the various plastic parts of the vacuum system are pretty brittle, learned that the hard way earlier when i broke one. took some electrical tape to temporarily fix until i can get to napa again. thanks again!
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platinumfossil
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Mar 19, 2011, 3:51 PM
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ok, i'm getting really ticked off at this problem....
i went to autozone yesterday and bought an ignition rotor (p/n DR923), ignition coil (p/n C846) and a pick up coil (p/n DR132). installed the ignition rotor and coil and pulled all of the plugs and plug wires back off to inspect them and check the gaps on the plugs. the wires are ok, no melted areas at least; i don't have a multimeter handy or i would check the wire resistance. the plugs weren't fouled, the gaps were good at .045, and none of the porcelain was cracked.
i couldnt get the pick up coil changed becasue i culdnt get the original one out. i dont know how to pull the shaft out that the pick up coil sits around, i did a google search but the one hit i found that was related to my situation said that i just had to pull the shaft out up and out. i did some tugging on it and it really ain't budging so i gave up on the pick up coil until i get my haynes manual. ordered one the other day online but it hasn't shown up in the mail yet.
so basically all i've done today is the ignition coil and rotor and checked the plugs and wires. reinstalled everything and now the damn engine wont start! it turns over and over but wont fire. i swapped back to the original ignition coil and rotor and double checked my firing order and tried again. no start!
i'm guessing i have an issue with the distributor now but don't know how to figure it out. any suggestions or ideas would be most appreciated. thanks!
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 19, 2011, 3:56 PM
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Re: 86 Olds Cutlass Ciera misfire help
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All "crank, no start" conditions are approached in the same way. Every engine requires certain functions to be able to run. Some of these functions rely on specific components to work and some components are part of more than one function so it is important to see the whole picture to be able to conclude anything about what may have failed. Also, these functions can ONLY be tested during the failure. Any other time and they will simply test good because the problem isn't present at the moment.
If you approach this in any other way, you are merely guessing and that only serves to replace unnecessary parts and wastes money.
Every engine requires spark, fuel and compression to run. That's what we have to look for.
These are the basics that need to be tested and will give us the info required to isolate a cause.
1) Test for spark at the plug end of the wire using a spark tester. If none found, check for power supply on the + terminal of the coil with the key on.
2) Test for injector pulse using a small bulb called a noid light. If none found, check for power supply at one side of the injector with the key on.
3) Use a fuel pressure gauge to test for correct fuel pressure, also noticing if the pressure holds when key is shut off.
4) If all of these things check good, then you would need to do a complete compression test.
Once you have determined which of these functions has dropped out,
you will know which system is having the problem.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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platinumfossil
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Mar 19, 2011, 4:34 PM
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yeah i've read this word for word on several auto help websites too, i was really hoping for an answer that involved someone actually considering my situation and trying to help. i suppose many problems can be solved with a copy and paste from another website or from a repair guide saved on your computer but it really doesn't help me right now.
the car ran, still missing and running roughly with stalling problems, all day yesterday. i didnt start it today because i wanted to work on a cool engine but i seriously doubt that the fuel pressure got screwed up overnight while sitting in my garage. i also don't think the compression got screwed up either, i double checked all of my vacuum lines since i beat them up last time and they are all good. to me it's obvious that the issue is somewhere in the spark requirement but i don't know how to eliminate it down to a specific part. i don't have a spark plug tester but may be able to figure out how to make one myself, the internet is a powerful tool. i'm not sure how to use a noid light to test the injector pulse, where would i touch the probe to?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 19, 2011, 4:40 PM
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Let me tell you something. I wrote every word of that answer. Yes, i use it a lot and I have answered for many forums and I bet other people have taken it and used it too. That is the exact procedure you have to follow. if you think there is some kind of magic shortcut, you're wrong. we need every bit of that information to isolate where your problem is coming from. If you feel that is too much work for you or you just want to assume things, then you need to find someone else to help you.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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platinumfossil
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Mar 19, 2011, 5:28 PM
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ok MC Hammer Time, i can see that i bent your feelers a bit so i'm probably going to have to give up on carjunky.com for help. oh well, there are others out there that maybe you aren't the only one who answers questions on.
let me tell you something. us everyday joes who join websites like this for help don't have a full shop in our garages like you self-proclaimed ASE masters do, so stuff like fuel pressure and compression tests are kinda tough to do. why don't you just answer all of your posts with "take your vehicle to an ASE master mechanic shop and pay out the arse for complete diagnostic testing and labor rates"
i'm not looking for any magic shortcuts, just simply some help. am i being totally absurd when i say the car ran yesterday so i don't think a fuel pressure or compression test are necessary? really?
We don't allow links here
thanks again for all of your fantastic help!!! 
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Mar 19, 2011, 5:31 PM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 19, 2011, 5:35 PM
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Re: 86 Olds Cutlass Ciera misfire help
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Lazy is not going to get your car fixed. If you want to try the crystal ball method, you're welcome to. We deal with facts.
You can get a spark tester and noid light both for under $10. The fuel pressure gauge and compression tester can be gotten for free through the loaner program at Autozone or PepBoys.
If you want to continue to throw parts at it with no testing, that will get a lot more expensive than a couple of testing tools.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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platinumfossil
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Mar 19, 2011, 5:58 PM
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yeah, i suppose i could borrow the tools from a local parts store. i think i mentioned in my original post that i'm about 40 minutes away from the nearest parts store though and like i mentioned in post #7 the car won't freaking start right now so it'll probably take more like 40 hours to push it to autozone. i'm not being lazy you ass, i'm trying to get my car running again with the limited resources i have available. as far as throwing parts at it goes, i don't mind replacing these parts since they've probably never been replaced or are overdue anyways. i want this car to run well for me for an extended period of time, that's why i was changing the plugs, wires and distributor in the first place. or are those a waste of money too in your "master" opinion?
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tooanoyu
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Mar 20, 2011, 10:28 AM
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Re: 86 Olds Cutlass Ciera misfire help
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IMHO you still have a timing issue. Start fresh get a cup of coffee relax your fustrated.
1. Set the emgine to # 1 TDC pull the plug out of number 1 cylindar make sure it is on the top of the stroke. Lightly stick a screwdriver making sure it's there or a flashlight and make sure its there. WHY - Sure this will place the rotor where it needs to be on the distributor cap. then you can follow the diagram and trouble shoot it.
2. take of the distributor cap. Look at the position of the rotor it could be 180 degrees off???
3. Look to see if the rotor strike is at the same position on the contact point for number 1 plug wire. NOTE: just becuase the diagram shows where number one wire goes is doesn't mean thats where it is on the distributor cap. on my distributor cap it actually moves to the other side on the cap the cap is wired thru it.
You can actually be 180 dregrees off so long as you have the firing order right you can still have a good running car. Maybe when it was messed with before you could have happened.
You need to make sure where number one fire, spark, cap, rotar are thru the system then the rest will follow into place and follow the rotation of the firing order on the diagram.
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