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Intermittant Won't Start - 1996 Ranger
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Ranger96
Novice
Jun 16, 2013, 9:35 PM
Post #1 of 13
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Intermittant Won't Start - 1996 Ranger
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I've read several other threads where the Member seems to have the same issue as I have been having.
I have the following:
1996 Black Ford Ranger XLT
2.3L, 4cyl, 5spd SuperCab
It started happening in random events. Once in awhile, I would drive off to return videos, shut it off, come back out and NO START.
Then, all of a sudden, it would fire up as is nothing was wrong. And, it would be okay for days, if not weeks....
I would go off to the store to get milk, and BAM it would not start... then suddenly it would... without any reasonings....
I got to the point where I would drive my other car, and I changed the following, based on Mechanics reasonings...
Fuel Pump
Fuel Filter
Fuel Regulator
Ignition Coils (2)
Air Flow thing, on top at the back of the engine
(was told again, it was the fuel pump, but ignored the guy this time - it wasn't that)
Finally, I heard it might be the Fuel Injector Wiring Harness... and we changed that.
THIS seemed to fix the problem, and the truck ran normally again for the next 20 months.
Suddenly, I began to have issues again... slowly at first, and now it is constant again.
Only this time, all I have is my truck. So, I need to figure this out or buy a $500 beater.
How could a Fuel Injection Wiring Harness go bad in roughly 20 months? Ans: It doesn't.
In the last week, I've run into a Roadside Mechanic, and they said they had seen this issue tons of times...
They advise I change the Crankshaft Position Sensor... and that should do the trick.
So, I did that this last weekend. At first, it seemed to work.. but, within a half dozen attempts at starting, I have the same problem... nothing is changed, even with about 4.5 hours of effort on a fine Saturday.... in fact, now, the issue seems to be worse.
So, what is it that would allow an engine to start normally, run normally, get good gas mileage regularly, but intermittantly not start for no apparent reason? I am told the engine cannot figure out which spark plug to send an electrical charge to... which is why we changed the CPS (crankshaft position sensor). I've done quite a bit of research... including Ford Ranger Forums... and no one seems to know what the issue is.
I've read it could be the Fuel Pump Relay, which is about a $75-$100 part. Something is giving the ECM wrong advice and it is not letting the engine start like it should. When it does start, it runs fine. I probably need to up the idle RPMs just a touch, but once it starts, it runs very normal.. and I have no issues. Yet, when it won't start... it simply won't start. It's like the old vehicles with vapor lock.. suddenly it will start right up as if nothing was ever wrong...
What else do I have to consider looking at? Any advice is welcome.. I have 243K on the truck and I am the only owner.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 17, 2013, 1:36 AM
Post #2 of 13
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Re: Intermittent Won't Start - 1996 Ranger
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Eyesight challenged but where in all that if missed have you said if it cranks or not when it doesn't start?
Stop listening to "Joe's Tire Swing Repairs" and tossing parts as the ones you replaced are now in question if not proven bad as failure rates of new hacked parts is higher than old good originals IMO in many things.
What is dropping out WHEN it doesn't start?
T
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 17, 2013, 3:02 AM
Post #3 of 13
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Re: Intermittant Won't Start - 1996 Ranger
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I hope you have finally figured out that the "dartboard" method of throwing parts at it until something sticks, doesn't work.
Here is what has to ab done
All "crank, no start" conditions are approached in the same way. Every engine requires certain functions to be able to run. Some of these functions rely on specific components to work and some components are part of more than one function so it is important to see the whole picture to be able to conclude anything about what may have failed. Also, these functions can ONLY be tested during the failure. Any other time and they will simply test good because the problem isn't present at the moment.
If you approach this in any other way, you are merely guessing and that only serves to replace unnecessary parts and wastes money.
Every engine requires spark, fuel and compression to run. That's what we have to look for.
These are the basics that need to be tested and will give us the info required to isolate a cause.
1) Test for spark at the plug end of the wire using a spark tester. If none found, check for power supply on the + terminal of the coil with the key on.
2) Test for injector pulse using a small bulb called a noid light. If none found, check for power supply at one side of the injector with the key on.
3) Use a fuel pressure gauge to test for correct fuel pressure, also noticing if the pressure holds when key is shut off.
Once you have determined which of these functions has dropped out,
you will know which system is having the problem.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Ranger96
Novice
Jun 17, 2013, 5:16 AM
Post #5 of 13
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Re: Intermittant Won't Start - 1996 Ranger
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I hope you have finally figured out that the "dartboard" method of throwing parts at it until something sticks, doesn't work.
Here is what has to ab done
All "crank, no start" conditions are approached in the same way. Every engine requires certain functions to be able to run. Some of these functions rely on specific components to work and some components are part of more than one function so it is important to see the whole picture to be able to conclude anything about what may have failed. Also, these functions can ONLY be tested during the failure. Any other time and they will simply test good because the problem isn't present at the moment.
If you approach this in any other way, you are merely guessing and that only serves to replace unnecessary parts and wastes money.
Every engine requires spark, fuel and compression to run. That's what we have to look for.
These are the basics that need to be tested and will give us the info required to isolate a cause.
1) Test for spark at the plug end of the wire using a spark tester. If none found, check for power supply on the + terminal of the coil with the key on.
2) Test for injector pulse using a small bulb called a noid light. If none found, check for power supply at one side of the injector with the key on.
3) Use a fuel pressure gauge to test for correct fuel pressure, also noticing if the pressure holds when key is shut off.
Once you have determined which of these functions has dropped out,
you will know which system is having the problem.
I will do all that you suggest. From what I've read so far (online) it sounds like the ECM will simply send an electrical signal to whichever spark plug is needing it.... whereas, in the old days, it would be the #1 spark plug which needed signal first, in order to start.
Am I wrong?
Thank you
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 17, 2013, 5:24 AM
Post #6 of 13
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Re: Intermittent Won't Start - 1996 Ranger
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Look back at Hammer Time's post for what to do for "Cranks but doesn't start" as the guide as to what is missing. Perfectly running is another job.
Trouble with parts tossing is when new stuff is bad and you've thrown many at a problem it can mess you up thinking "new" is or was the problem when defective even if you hit it with that approach. If parts were all free it complicates the problem.
Intermittent means you should be at the ready for when this happens for quick testing for spark and fuel first. Carry stuff if needed ready to check.
When some intermittent things just will not act up or set a code for a clue to even a well equipped shop it's hard to be certain,
T
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 17, 2013, 5:34 AM
Post #7 of 13
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Re: Intermittant Won't Start - 1996 Ranger
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I gave you the testing required to find your problem. You can follow it and post the results or you can continue throwing parts at it, your choice.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Ranger96
Novice
Jun 19, 2013, 3:20 PM
Post #8 of 13
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Re: Intermittent Won't Start - 1996 Ranger
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Well, the latest update is.... making sure I can get myself to work is the more important issue now.
As for the comment of "throwing parts at it" to see where things can be fixed, has been the result of many questions to quite a few very good mechanics at even the Ford Dealerships that are near me. It hasn't been from some rumor at some bar.
Believe it or not, there are quite a few mechanics who are good enough, like here, to provide a guiding hand when they already do have more than enough business as it is.
And, yes, I do appreciate the assistance given here as much as anywhere I can find help.
Right now, since I do not have resources (at the moment) to deal with all the testing necessary, the truck is on the tester at a local repair shop where the Lead Mech is curious why towing it onto a wrecker and then dropping it off would suddenly cause it to not have any problems starting all of a sudden. He will keep the truck until the Scope (hopefully) can tell us what the trouble is......
Here's a note all of you might find odd --> They cannot get the ECM to communicate to the Scope. Yet, he is having no issue (today) with getting it to start... and, unlike here at the house... it stays running... I would go start it up, come back in to grab my stuff and it would die on me in 3 minutes... and NOT start the rest of the day....
Is this an issue with alignment(s), or well.... who knows... but it sure is odd that suddenly it starts with no issues...
It's like a TV set not working right until the repair guy shows up....
I have no idea what another ECM would cost... but the truck has no blue book value... it's value is the fact that I'm the only owner.
I will keep you all posted.
Oh, I was told that the Crankshaft Position Sensor "rarely" goes bad on the Rangers... On Chryslers, they go bad all the time... but very rarely on any of the Ford Rangers. Something I guess quite a few mechanics haven't checked up on or have no real experience dealing with... who knows.
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Hammer Time
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Jun 19, 2013, 3:47 PM
Post #9 of 13
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Re: Intermittent Won't Start - 1996 Ranger
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When you play "swaptronics" trying to find a problem, it's called throwing parts at it. This is not a method that any professional diagnostic tech will use. We systematically isolate the system that is failing and then we confirm the part failure. Then and only then do we replace parts.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Jun 19, 2013, 3:52 PM)
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Ranger96
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Jun 19, 2013, 6:39 PM
Post #10 of 13
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Re: Intermittent Won't Start - 1996 Ranger
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Agreed, Hammer.... totally agree. That's exactly what the 30 year Mech is doing with my truck right now.
I will let you know.... I have to keep my job...
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Ranger96
Novice
Jun 20, 2013, 4:22 PM
Post #11 of 13
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Re: Intermittent Won't Start - 1996 Ranger
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Okay.... after two full days of troubleshooting.... waiting for the "NO START" issue to replicate itself... the Mech finally did have an episode where the Truck suddenly would not start.
They checked fuel and that was good.
They then started with the spark plug and found NO SPARK... (as you advised, Hammer)
They also found that when attempting to connect the Truck to the Scope, the ECM would not communicate......
They were able to trace the issue back to the ECM RELAY.
They replaced the ECM RELAY module and the truck was able to start immediately.
ALSO - they are now able to communicate to the Scope.
Several tests, including driving around... bringing it back, shutting off and and trying to start it again... and it starts, every time.
Tomorrow, they will fix one more item I need taken care of, and then I will go pick her up.
SO... for all of you who are asking why your vehicles won't start and there is NO CODE, as well.....
I would advise you heed what [Hammer] says about tracing where the NO SPARK issue might be.
And, that means starting with the spark plug and working your way backwards... because that's exactly what was done.
Thanks, guys.....
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 20, 2013, 4:29 PM
Post #12 of 13
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Re: Intermittent Won't Start - 1996 Ranger
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Its a proven, systematic method that always gets to the source of the problem
Glad to hear you found it.
Now, let me explain something to you. That relay supplies power to all the coils and all the injectors among other things so if you had performed those tests and came back and said, I have no power supply to either of them, we would have gone straight to the relay.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Jun 20, 2013, 4:34 PM)
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Ranger96
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Jun 20, 2013, 8:11 PM
Post #13 of 13
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Re: Intermittent Won't Start - 1996 Ranger
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You are correct. But, at least two other people I know ended up having the Dealer figure out it was the Fuel Injector Wiring Harness. So, it was at least almost a two year fix, for this guy. I will be spreading the word on this one.
Thanks again! I have a few other things on my Truck that need updating, so I'm sure I will be back... a good website, overall.
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