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P0E2005
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Jul 30, 2012, 1:58 PM
Post #1 of 35
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Oil in the Reservoir
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Ok. Unique situation. My brother lived about 5 hours north of me. And moved back in with me recently. The plan was to drive up. Get his car up and running (It had been sitting for about 6 months due to expired tags) And him follow me down.
(2000 Saturn LS2 by the way)
Alas! Upon just checking his coolant level. I encountered a thick, milky black oil, that smelled like engine oil. My first thought "Oh god! Head Gasket" so I flushed it all out. And re-filled the reservoir. And started it up. It Idled ok. No water out of the Tail pipe. Pulled the dipstick, and the Oil level was ok. Didn't look milky or watery. So then I popped the cap off the coolant reservoir to see if any exhaust bubbles were being released in the water.
And here comes the oil. You could watch it rise. Eventually over flowing and just running down the side.
Any ideas? See, the main issue is the car being in his friend's yard 300 miles away. Hard to trouble shoot it. I am running off memory here, and any advice you guys have will be taken into effect upon my trip BACK up next week. It's just rough. I ONLY have Saturday and Sunday off, and with Most mechanics being closed Sunday's I pretty much just have Saturday to work with. So at least a vague Idea would be so great.
Head Gasket? Head? Block? Radiator? Any help yould be appreciated.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jul 30, 2012, 2:06 PM
Post #2 of 35
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Re: Oil in the Reservoir
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Is this car 5 hours away from you? A maybe is if automatic that trans fluid if it uses radiator could be leaking inside to engine coolant - at first would float and be expelled to recovery tank. You would see low trans fluid level with this amount so fast in front of you.
This car is NOT up to that drive till fixed,
T
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P0E2005
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Jul 30, 2012, 2:09 PM
Post #3 of 35
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Re: Oil in the Reservoir
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We left it there. That's what's making it difficult is that it is so far away and we can't move it till it's addressed.
Stupid me didn't check the Transmission Fluid. But some of the "Oil" in the reservoir was jet black in color. I figured transmission fluid would be more reddish pink?
If it is in fact Tranny fluid what would that indicate?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jul 30, 2012, 2:11 PM
Post #4 of 35
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Re: Oil in the Reservoir
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That's not going to be a head gasket. It's going to be a cracked head. Those DOHC are notorious for that and that's about the only way you get oil in the coolant. Head gaskets don't generally do that.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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P0E2005
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Jul 30, 2012, 2:29 PM
Post #5 of 35
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Re: Oil in the Reservoir
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Oh god...Cracked head. That's a terrifying notion...We actually drove up to a nearby Mechanic and he did say that those engines had TONS of problems.
If it is in the reservoir and mixed with water. How could I tell whether it's Oil or Tranny fluid? Judging by the color. I am worried it's Oil. But the oil level read ok.
Also. After it filled with oil when we ran it. I killed it and flushed it again. Completely dry. And filled it back up. And DIDN'T start it up again. When I came back and checked the reservoir. The oil was there again. Without the car even running.....
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jul 30, 2012, 2:54 PM
Post #6 of 35
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Re: Oil in the Reservoir
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The color is about the only way to tell between engine oil and trans fluid. The engine oil doesn't have to be low, it only takes a little oil to make a complete mess.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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P0E2005
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Jul 30, 2012, 3:03 PM
Post #7 of 35
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Re: Oil in the Reservoir
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See, It's kind of hard to explain. But this wasn't a small amount of oil. I had to throw down Kitty Litter. It was flowing out of the reservoir like a little oil volcano. Went everywhere. If there is a crack somewhere...it is substantial.
Someone said since it is an Automatic it may have Engine oil coolant lines that may have broken near the radiator?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jul 30, 2012, 3:20 PM
Post #8 of 35
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Re: Oil in the Reservoir
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I don't believe your car has an engine oil cooler but if it does, that's entirely possible.
Oil floats on water so even a small amount mixed with coolant will seem like a lot and it's very hard to get it all out.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jul 30, 2012, 4:12 PM
Post #9 of 35
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Re: Oil in the Reservoir
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Oil cooler is probably leaking. The 3.0L is known for that.
Its located in between the cylinder heads under the intake.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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P0E2005
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Jul 30, 2012, 6:32 PM
Post #10 of 35
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Re: Oil in the Reservoir
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Alright guys. You have all been really helpful so far. As soon as I find out more details I will let you know.
Basically praying for something that doesn't lead to buying a new motor :/
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jul 30, 2012, 6:46 PM
Post #11 of 35
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Re: Oil in the Reservoir
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I remember reading an article in Motor Age where they had a Saturn with your symptoms. Found a link to the article if you want to read about it.
http://www.searchautoparts.com/...-production?page=0,0
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Jul 30, 2012, 11:15 PM
Post #12 of 35
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Re: Oil in the Reservoir
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P0E2005 : No matter what you find it's better to know. ATF (usually reddish) could turn dark if mixed with coolant but generally not so fast. Also know that all the 'rubber' products in cooling system won't like oil in them and ATF is an oil.
Just factor that even if expensive to stop the oil invasion. You could just feel some cooling system hoses and note they are way too soft or perhaps lucky and not enough time to have done that.
Hard stuff at a distance like that to know the best attack. Fix there or somehow get it back locally. Lots is not fun or cheap on top of fixing the problem!
T
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P0E2005
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Jul 31, 2012, 2:48 PM
Post #13 of 35
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Re: Oil in the Reservoir
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Well guys, I have a buddy with a Blazer and a tow bar. So I believe next weekend we're going to run up and haul it back down here where we can actually work with it.
IF it is the Oil Cooler, any of you guys have an idea of about how much that will cost?
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P0E2005
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Jul 31, 2012, 2:52 PM
Post #14 of 35
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Re: Oil in the Reservoir
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And also, that article pretty much nails what we were experiencing.
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P0E2005
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Sep 5, 2012, 4:34 PM
Post #16 of 35
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Re: Oil in the Reservoir
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Ok guys, I have another question. I am shopping around for this "Oil Cooler" Online, and upon entering the make and model of the car, the only results are a TRANSMISSION oil cooler. And it doesn't look like the Cooler pictured in the above Diagram, or the Article in the link above. Am I not searching for the right thing?
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nickwarner
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Sep 5, 2012, 4:44 PM
Post #17 of 35
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Re: Oil in the Reservoir
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I went on Ebay and typed 2000 Saturn engine oil cooler. Found several of them, all AC Delco and new. About $190 for any of them.
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P0E2005
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Sep 5, 2012, 4:51 PM
Post #18 of 35
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Re: Oil in the Reservoir
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See, I didn't try Ebay. I don't understand why I can only find it there, none of the other reputable Auto parts sites have it, they have a Transmission oil cooler that runs about $70.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Sep 5, 2012, 5:04 PM
Post #19 of 35
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Re: Oil in the Reservoir
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Get a good Delco part number and try a search with that.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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nickwarner
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Sep 5, 2012, 5:06 PM
Post #20 of 35
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Re: Oil in the Reservoir
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that would do your transmission fine and do nothing to help your engine. Square pegs don't fit in round holes. This engine isn't a small block chevy. Parts aren't cheap and plentiful everywhere you look for them.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Sep 5, 2012, 5:37 PM
Post #21 of 35
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Re: Oil in the Reservoir
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Rockauto sells just the engine oil cooler assembly
AC Delco p/n 13101668
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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P0E2005
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Sep 6, 2012, 4:08 AM
Post #22 of 35
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Re: Oil in the Reservoir
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Ok, I am finding it with that part number now. Awesome! :D
I just wish that the ONLY mechanic within distance to service the car was as smart as you guys are.
Here's an excerpt from the conversation on the phone with him:
Him: "Well the cooler would be a Transmission oil cooler, and attached to the radiator, so just buy the whole radiator, they should come together."
Me: "Well....From what I am finding there is a separate engine ENGINE oil cooler, under the intake between the heads. I believe that's what's ruptured."
Him: "Well....If it's separate it wouldn't be causing your oil in the water, because usually the radiator is cracked and it leaks that way..."
Lord help me... :/
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nickwarner
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Sep 6, 2012, 2:08 PM
Post #23 of 35
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Re: Oil in the Reservoir
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Your engine is a Saab design and not a whole lot of them around, so a local independant shop may have never seen this setup before. I've never seen one like it on any of the other engines I've worked on. Go figure the whole brand was discontinued and small wonder why. If there is a shop that specializes in european cars you may find someone who knows exactly what you're talking about.
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Double J
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Sep 6, 2012, 9:55 PM
Post #24 of 35
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Re: Oil in the Reservoir
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We used to get the Cateras in all the time with blown engine oil coolers
General Motors' Opel subsidiary in Europe designed a compact V6 engine with an odd 54° vee angle. It was an iron block/aluminum head DOHC design with 4 valves per cylinder. All 54° engines were assembled at Ellesmere Port in England.
This engine was used in American models as well. The engine was reworked substantially between the 3.0 L L81 and 3.2 L LA3, but the bore centers and deck height were retained. In its 3.0 L form, this engine was notable for recalls of all units installed in Cadillac Cateras due to timing belt tensioner bearing failures, which could cause catastrophic damage to the engine because of its interference design
L81 3.0
The L81 was used longitudinally in Cadillac Catera and transversely in the Saturn L-Series, Saturn Vue, Saab 9-5 and Saab 9000. Bore and stroke were 86 mm (3.38 in) × 85 mm (3.35 in), for 2962 cc (180.75 cu in) displacement. with 10.8:1 compression, the engine produced between 182 hp (136 kW) and 208 hp (155 kW) with 190 lb·ft (258 N·m) to 199 lb·ft (270 N·m).
Saab's turbocharged version (referred to by Saab as 'B308') for the Saab 9-5 produced 200 hp (149 kW) at 5000 rpm and 229 lb·ft (310 N·m) at 2500-4000 rpm. The engine was unique in that an asymmetrical turbocharging method was employed with the turbocharger using the exhaust gases from one bank of cylinders and produced a charge pressure of 3.6PSI (.25 Bar) using a Garrett GT17 turbo. Saab equipped the engine with a special version of Saab Direct Ignition and utilized the Trionic T7 engine management system.
This engine was used in: - 1997–2001 Cadillac Catera
- 1996–2000 Opel Sintra Vauxhall Sintra
- 1995–2000 Opel Omega Vauxhall Omega
- 1995–1997 Saab 9000
- 1997–2003 Saab 9-5 (turbocharged)
- 2000–2005 Saturn L-Series
- 2002–2003 Saturn Vue
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P0E2005
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Oct 1, 2012, 4:15 PM
Post #25 of 35
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Re: Oil in the Reservoir
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Ok guys, I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place here, and I need some advice.
I got in touch with a local mechanic, who agreed to use his truck to come and tow the car back to his shop, and look at it for us. AMAZING! Right?
Well, I made the mistake of saying, "We need to see if we can save it or have to junk it", and it turns out, Mr. Friendly Mechanic ALSO....Junks cars.
Now that he has the car, I dunno if he's being honest, or trying to get me to scrap the car, or if he's just stupid!
He called me and said : "I don't really know where the oil is coming from, but with that, the poor interior, and cracked windsheild, I would just scrap it."
Me: "Have you ruled out a cracked Block or head gasket yet?"
Him: "No, I can't do that unless I tear it down, replace the gasket, and it still may not fix the problem."
Me: "Well...General consensus is the oil cooler, I believe that's the problem, can you look at that and see if it's the problem?"
Him: "Where is the oil Cooler?"
Me: "Under the intake, between the heads."
Him: "I can tear it down, probably $150 labor. But if I do get the part out I won't know if it's leaking."
Me: "You...can apply some air pressure...with some soapy water...and see if it's leaking..."
Him: "Yea I could do that."
So that's what's going to happen, $150 for him to get to the part. I am afraid he's conning me. Gonna charge us $150, Tell us it's NOT the problem. And then recommend scrapping, and with the labor we owe him....Get a free car basically...
What do you guys think? He IS my only option, there is no moving the car, You think he's just stupid? Or conning me?
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