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Runs bad--punch it--Runs good...HUH??
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ratrace2
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Jun 13, 2012, 3:26 PM
Post #1 of 18
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Runs bad--punch it--Runs good...HUH??
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Hello All,
Well, I have good friend a couple of doors down and he is having some trouble with his:
2002 Dodge Dakota; 3.9 V6 Automatic, A/C, Extend Cab.
Here is the problem:
I start the truck up and drive around for a while; when the truck starts to get warm it starts to Lose power, like it has a CAT clogged, and it boggs down real bad with no power.
BUT: because the truck is loosing power I put the gas pedal to the floor and all of a sudden, POP, it starts to run normal again. At least for a little while, about 2 miles and then it starts to act like it is clogged up with something and again, I put the pedal to the floor and POP, it runs good again....
Also throwing codes:
P0132 oxg sensor 1 bank 1 high voltage
P0455 evap emission sys. gross leak
p0456 small leak
p0172 fuel sys. sensor 1 bank 1 lean.
Anybody got any ideas......Thanks much All...
(This post was edited by ratrace2 on Jun 13, 2012, 3:30 PM)
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 13, 2012, 3:32 PM
Post #2 of 18
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Re: Runs bad--punch it--Runs good...HUH??
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Unplug Bank 1 sensor 1 O2 sensor when it is running bad and see if it clears up.
If Bank1 sensor 1 is stuck lean, the PCM will make the engine run rich. When you floor it, it goes out of closed loop and doesn't use the O2 for trimming the fuel.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Jun 13, 2012, 3:34 PM)
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ratrace2
User
Jun 13, 2012, 3:35 PM
Post #3 of 18
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Re: Runs bad--punch it--Runs good...HUH??
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What's your theory??
You are saying that after a short period of driving the O2 sensor is causing a lean condition.
THis in turn causes the engine to lose power.
Consequently, the Flooring of the fuel pedal eliminates the activity of the o2 sensor and the truck returns to proper fuel trim, at least for a while until the o2 sensor gets stuck again.
Is that basically what you are saying??
(This post was edited by ratrace2 on Jun 13, 2012, 3:40 PM)
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 13, 2012, 3:42 PM
Post #4 of 18
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Re: Runs bad--punch it--Runs good...HUH??
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No, because unplugging the O2 sensor forces it into open loop. If the sensor is sticking lean, the computer is going to be adding fuel to the engine. The engine really isn't running lean, so it runs bad because it is actually running rich because the computer thinks it is lean from the faulty O2 sensor reading.
Easiest way to determine if the 02 sensor is causing the engine to run rich and bad is to unplug it, and see if the problem goes away.
If it goes away, your o2 sensor is stuck.
Flooring it takes it out of closed loop. Another words the computer isn't using the O2 sensor when you floor it. That explains why it runs better when you floor it.
It probably also runs good when you first start it, until the O2 sensors heat up and it goes into closed loop.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Jun 13, 2012, 3:44 PM)
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ratrace2
User
Jun 13, 2012, 3:45 PM
Post #5 of 18
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Re: Runs bad--punch it--Runs good...HUH??
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Gotchca.....Thanks,.......
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 13, 2012, 4:16 PM
Post #7 of 18
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Re: Runs bad--punch it--Runs good...HUH??
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Dodge sends a bias voltage down the O2 sensor circuit to test the 02's heater performance. The bias can be above 1.0 volt. Naturally as the O2 sensor comes online the resistance in the sensor decreases and the bias voltage the computer is watching goes down also. The high voltage code can set if the bias is above 1.0 volt.
Watch this video because Danner explains the bias very well. I actually learned about the bias voltage on Chrysler sitting on the toilet reading Motorage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8XrM-7BuOg
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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ratrace2
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Jun 13, 2012, 6:08 PM
Post #8 of 18
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Re: Runs bad--punch it--Runs good...HUH??
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OK.....
I unplugged the 02 Sensor on bank 1 sensor 1
(driver side before the Cat). I went for a little drive to heat up the sensor. After about 3 miles the truck acted up a little. I pressed the gas and it pulled out of "open loop" quickly. Basically, it ran twice as good, 2 times better, with the o2 sensor unplugged.
So, I got a new sensor from autozone (138354 Miles on the truck--it's due) and the truck is running fine.
It still has some MIL's light but I'll try to clear them tomorrow at my buddies auto body shop...He has a better scanner.
I think we have a fix. Thanks guys.....
Oh, yea. I love dannerscanner......
(This post was edited by ratrace2 on Jun 13, 2012, 6:11 PM)
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 13, 2012, 6:20 PM
Post #9 of 18
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Re: Runs bad--punch it--Runs good...HUH??
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Thanks for posting a follow up. 
When your friend connects up his scanner have him/her check out the long and short term fuel trims and the O2 volt switching. The long term should be around 0 % +/- 9%. It may take a while of driving before the trims come back to normal in all the load cells since your fix.
Your light still may pop back on after you clear the codes because you have an EVAP problem going on.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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ratrace2
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Jun 13, 2012, 6:28 PM
Post #10 of 18
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Re: Runs bad--punch it--Runs good...HUH??
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Right, this truck has multiple issues.
I just want to start with one section of the motor at a time a progress form there. Right now, the truck needs:
tires, shocks, exhaust, brakes, hoses, belt tensioner.
I just want to help the guy get to work tomorrow; as he gets some money together, we do more work. Tires are next.
Oh yea:
In these times of uncertain economic outcomes, I want to take a second and thank all the great guys at carjunky for helping me help so many of my friends in the neighborhood. These days, people cannot afford the $400, $ 600 brake job and etc...repair bill. So I try to get the work done for the cost of parts. Even then some of the people around here have a hard time affording that. So, thanks to all the great people that make me look so good to all of my friends........God bless all of you forever....
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ratrace2
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Jun 14, 2012, 2:10 PM
Post #11 of 18
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Re: Runs bad--punch it--Runs good...HUH??
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Thanks for posting a follow up. When your friend connects up his scanner have him/her check out the long and short term fuel trims and the O2 volt switching. The long term should be around 0 % +/- 9%. It may take a while of driving before the trims come back to normal in all the load cells since your fix. Your light still may pop back on after you clear the codes because you have an EVAP problem going on.
OK: Still got a problem.
The owner says the truck is still running rough. Doing that same thing as yesterday before the o2 sensor change.
MIL: P0132 (1 of 1) o2 Sensor circuit high voltage bank 1 sensor 1.
_______________________________________________
ltfueltrm 2 3.0
st ftrm 2 2.0
fuel sys 1 open
fuel sys 2 closed
fuel sys 1 OL-fault
fuel sys2 OL-fault
MAP 10 9.7 8.8
RPM 664 695 1460
02s b2 s1 (v) 0.040 (1.000)
stft b1 s1 (%) 0 (-35.0)
02s b1 s2 (v) .020
(%) n/a
b2 s2 (v) .040
b2 s1 (v) .060
Well that's where I'm at......
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 14, 2012, 5:44 PM
Post #12 of 18
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Re: Runs bad--punch it--Runs good...HUH??
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Round 2 eh? Does this have California emissions?
Probably now you should make sure the 02 heater circuit is working. The ideal way would be to use an inductive clamp on the heater circuit wire to see how many amps is flowing. That would tell you if the heater for B1 S1 is operational.
You can also check heater voltage using multimeter. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to check this to be sure the heater is getting voltage and being controlled on the ground by the PCM.
Judging from your data stream information this should be California because you have four o2 sensors. Just want to make sure, so you test the correcting wiring.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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ratrace2
User
Jun 14, 2012, 6:18 PM
Post #14 of 18
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Re: Runs bad--punch it--Runs good...HUH??
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Thanks for posting a follow up. When your friend connects up his scanner have him/her check out the long and short term fuel trims and the O2 volt switching. The long term should be around 0 % +/- 9%. It may take a while of driving before the trims come back to normal in all the load cells since your fix. Your light still may pop back on after you clear the codes because you have an EVAP problem going on. OK: Still got a problem. The owner says the truck is still running rough. Doing that same thing as yesterday before the o2 sensor change. MIL: P0132 (1 of 1) o2 Sensor circuit high voltage bank 1 sensor 1. _______________________________________________ ltfueltrm 2 3.0 st ftrm 2 2.0 fuel sys 1 open fuel sys 2 closed fuel sys 1 OL-fault fuel sys2 OL-fault MAP 10 9.7 8.8 RPM 664 695 1460 02s b2 s1 (v) 0.040 (1.000) stft b1 s1 (%) 0 (-35.0) 02s b1 s2 (v) .020 (%) n/a b2 s2 (v) .040 b2 s1 (v) .060 Well that's where I'm at......
Would you think that the MAP values to RPM's indicate a bad MAP sensor???
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 14, 2012, 6:32 PM
Post #15 of 18
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Re: Runs bad--punch it--Runs good...HUH??
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Is has only two o2 sensors?
That MAP pid value is in inHg right? 29.92 inhg-10 inHg= 19.92 inHg of manifold vacuum. That sounds about right. MAP voltage at idle should be about 1.2 volts.
The high voltage code means the PCM is seeing over 1.0 volts from the O2 signal. This can happen if the heater isn't working. The O2 will be at bias (near 5 volts) if the heater isn't working or the signal line is open.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Sidom
Veteran
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Jun 15, 2012, 9:09 AM
Post #16 of 18
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Re: Runs bad--punch it--Runs good...HUH??
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Just for the heckva it. When the truck is running good & idling, gently wiggle the wires & connectors going into the PCM and see if that has any effect on how it's running.....
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ratrace2
User
Jun 23, 2012, 5:43 PM
Post #18 of 18
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Re: Runs bad--punch it--Runs good...HUH??
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OK, It's done and running well.
First the bad news then the good news.
First, I didn't change the bank 1 sensor1 O2sensor. I changed the bank1 sensor2. So, all I did with the first sensor change was put a sensor for b1 s1 into the b1 s2 slot behind the CAT, "Oh well."
Good news:
Today I pulled off the wheels and ripped the inner fenders out and replaced both O2sensors (bank 1 and 2). Put back the b1 b2 sensor (the old one) took the truck for a good drive around town. and it runs great.
Oh well, I do fudge it up once in a while.......
But, thanks much guys....it runs good. My neighbors says to thank you all..................Thanks all.
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