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Gerrym
User
Feb 23, 2014, 2:01 PM
Post #1 of 32
(3853 views)
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02 Dakota wont start
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Hi,
02 dodge Dakota
200,000 km or 120,000 miles
3.9 L V6
Truck broke down shortly after buying 2 years ago. Replaced the crank pos sensor, truck ran fine.
Alt and starter died and were replaced. Truck was running fine after.
Had truck in garage ready for a snow storm, was running fine, tried to start it to plow snow, would roll over fine but would not run. Would catch occasionally but was running very erratically. Won't run at all now.
Checked oil at one point to fine sump full of fuel. Changed oil and removed injectors, lots of fuel pressure but no leaky injectors. Checked oil today and noticed new oil is diluting with fuel again. Checked plugs and they seem wet.
Checked for spark with a spare spark plug clamped to the engine, nice bright spark at coil and at cylinders....What should I be checking next?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 23, 2014, 2:09 PM
Post #2 of 32
(3844 views)
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Re: 02 Dakota wont start
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This truck has the fuel pressure regulator inside the fuel tank so that leaves the injectors as the only possible way for fuel to get into the crankcase. You may have a problem with the wiring harness shorting the trigger for one of the injectors causing it to stay open.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Gerrym
User
Feb 23, 2014, 2:15 PM
Post #3 of 32
(3838 views)
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Re: 02 Dakota wont start
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I pulled the injectors and flipped them over so I could see them when I turned on the key. The fuel pressure came up ok but none of the injectors leaked by. At least one of them has to be leaking by, but how to tell....
Stethoscope on the injectors help? I pulled a couple of the plugs and they were both wet with fuel.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 23, 2014, 2:18 PM
Post #4 of 32
(3831 views)
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Re: 02 Dakota wont start
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It could be something like a bad coolant MAP sensor making it go extreme rich. Something is making those injectors dump fuel.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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kev2
Veteran
Feb 23, 2014, 2:24 PM
Post #5 of 32
(3827 views)
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Re: 02 Dakota wont start
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did you scan for codes?
what tools do you have- scanner - fuel pressure gauge, test light, DVOM....
the thermostat is there and is a 195degree?
do not assume no light no codes...
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Gerrym
User
Feb 23, 2014, 2:35 PM
Post #6 of 32
(3824 views)
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Re: 02 Dakota wont start
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I have an "Innova" code reader and cant see any codes.
Fuel Pressure is up there.
I have a light and multi-meter. I'm pretty well equipped for tools.
Never checked the thermostat. Coolant is not in good condition though.
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Gerrym
User
Feb 23, 2014, 2:40 PM
Post #7 of 32
(3819 views)
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Re: 02 Dakota wont start
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TPS could be a culprit here as well I assume?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 23, 2014, 3:35 PM
Post #8 of 32
(3786 views)
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Re: 02 Dakota wont start
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No, not likely. It can shut off the injectors but can't make it go full rich.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 23, 2014, 3:42 PM
Post #9 of 32
(3783 views)
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Re: 02 Dakota wont start
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Did you check to see if the charcoal canister is full of fuel? Pull the EVAP line off and see if gas pours out.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Gerrym
User
Feb 23, 2014, 3:46 PM
Post #10 of 32
(3779 views)
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Re: 02 Dakota wont start
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checked the tps with DVOM and it checked good
Checked MAP with Multi-meter and it checked good too.
is the charcoal canister the one by the frame almost under the drivers seat? I pulled the hoses off that and could smell fuel but nothing poured out.
Also, I realised the fuel was old and drained the tank and put new fuel in it....gonna go bald scratching my head on this one....
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 23, 2014, 3:49 PM
Post #11 of 32
(3776 views)
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Re: 02 Dakota wont start
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You really need to confirm if too much fuel is being sprayed into the engine. Does your scan tool show injector pulse width or any datastream information? If not, you would need a lab scope to find out what the injector pulse width is.
You could check sensors such as the TPS, MAP, and ECT with a volt meter to confirm those sensors are operating properly.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Feb 23, 2014, 3:55 PM)
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Gerrym
User
Feb 23, 2014, 4:15 PM
Post #12 of 32
(3769 views)
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Re: 02 Dakota wont start
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not sure if the scan tool checks band width.
Can check though....1900 hrs here, will start again tomorrow...
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Gerrym
User
Feb 23, 2014, 4:21 PM
Post #13 of 32
(3767 views)
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Re: 02 Dakota wont start
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Not familiar with ECT? Electronically Controlled Throttle?
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Gerrym
User
Feb 23, 2014, 4:22 PM
Post #14 of 32
(3765 views)
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Re: 02 Dakota wont start
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I will certainly share when I get this issue resolved! :)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 23, 2014, 5:17 PM
Post #15 of 32
(3756 views)
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Re: 02 Dakota wont start
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Gerrym: Just some ramblings and maybes for a source of troubles with this.........
You said in first post, Quote ">>Truck broke down shortly after buying 2 years ago. Replaced the crank pos sensor, truck ran fine.
Alt and starter died and were replaced. Truck was running fine after.
Had truck in garage ready for a snow storm, was running fine, tried to start it to plow snow<<"
*********************
That said speaks volumes. Mopars don't like improper electrical anything more than most IMO. What plow rig type set up is installed on this truck never intended to be used to plow snow? All electric, one battery or two, how invasive is what must be a non engineered set up? How heavy is plow and how actuated - electric hydraulic would be the norm with any pre-made brand.
I ask because the draw on electrical/hydraulic on my own far exceeds anything else in a whole truck specifically ordered new with a so called "snow plow prep" option.
If you have a second battery or one worked too hard running the plow with lights and heater all over this thing no telling what electrical spikes and dips it's exposed to. What wiring was corrupted and where? Near battery that might have leaked acid around area?
Just thoughts as right away you said alternator and starter were toast shortly after you got this rig, neither like the electrical battle of certain types of electric/hydraulic plows. My own clearly uses more juice than the entire rest of the truck and watch with digital voltmeter how low it dips not just the gauges and it's a lot.
Asking simply because in the best of cases plowing is abusive by nature to a machine and funky stuff can happen that otherwise wouldn't,
T
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Gerrym
User
Feb 24, 2014, 5:59 AM
Post #16 of 32
(3737 views)
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Re: 02 Dakota wont start
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Fisher Plow gear was installed on the truck when it was new by a reputable company that does probably half the plow installations for the province.....truck was used every winter for 10 years without this problem.
Alt and starter seized up, did not fail electrically...this was from sitting for the summer, they were 11 years old when they seized....no shame for them there.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 24, 2014, 7:31 AM
Post #17 of 32
(3726 views)
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Re: 02 Dakota wont start
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Only thought was that it was a common denominator for troubles. So is sitting around a long time for either plow or the truck. Watch out for fuel and anywhere wiring has been tapped in especially for a problem that could throw you off for "normal" troubleshooting for the truck itself, that was my thought only. Good luck and find the source problem(s.) Perhaps storing the truck better would help as you must know you don't need surprises just when you need it,
T
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Gerrym
User
Feb 24, 2014, 8:03 AM
Post #18 of 32
(3715 views)
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Re: 02 Dakota wont start
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Thanks for the replies and help...
wiring wasn't really tapped in as such...Fisher plows use a "source Isolator" that comes from the battery and then everything just plugs into that....
Not sure where I gotta be looking...Plugs are soaked telling me that it's dumping fuel. But when I took the fuel rail off, I didn't see it dumping....And yet the sump is filling with fuel...
In 35 years, I've always done my own repairs on newer and older vehicles and never been stumped like this lil bugger has me, :)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 24, 2014, 8:08 AM
Post #19 of 32
(3713 views)
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Re: 02 Dakota wont start
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What's the fuel pressure?
Have you tested pulse on every injector with a noid light?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Gerrym
User
Mar 4, 2014, 10:23 AM
Post #20 of 32
(3674 views)
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Re: 02 Dakota wont start
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Fuel pressure is just over 40 psi.
My gauge set up is kinda crude but works.
Pressure holds but drops off slowly over time...likely from my gauge connection.
FYI, I travel for work and such and have to be away from this stuff quite a bit....
(This post was edited by Gerrym on Mar 4, 2014, 10:29 AM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Mar 4, 2014, 10:38 AM
Post #21 of 32
(3671 views)
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Re: 02 Dakota wont start
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First off, that fuel pressure is too low.
The spec is 49.2 plus or minus 2 PSI.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Gerrym
User
Mar 4, 2014, 11:03 AM
Post #22 of 32
(3631 views)
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Re: 02 Dakota wont start
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Are you thinking fuel pressure 4 to 5 psi low will cause the no start?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Mar 4, 2014, 11:08 AM
Post #23 of 32
(3629 views)
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Re: 02 Dakota wont start
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That's not 4 to 5 PSI. That's 10 PSI.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Gerrym
User
Mar 4, 2014, 11:21 AM
Post #24 of 32
(3625 views)
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Re: 02 Dakota wont start
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I was having a hard time reading it and turning it over at the same time. Could tell it was over 40, guessing 42 to 43.
You say it should be 49.2 plus or minus 2.
That's about 49.2 - (42 or 43),
5 psi low worst case....Is that enough to cause a no start?
I just don't want to be putting more parts on this if its not fixing the problem.
Do appreciate the feedback though, thanks.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Mar 4, 2014, 1:22 PM
Post #25 of 32
(3616 views)
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Re: 02 Dakota wont start
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I wouldn't try to guess if it would or it wouldn't. They supply specs and tolerances for a reason. If they tell you plus or minus 2 PSI, that doesn't mean 5, 6 or 10 PSI. We don't try to look around problems. We repair them.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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