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04 Chevy 1500 crew cab Getting hot
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adamsj13
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Aug 26, 2008, 5:09 PM
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04 Chevy 1500 crew cab Getting hot
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Hi All, I just bought a truck and it gets hot while it idles. Its fine when driving, stays under 210, when Idles, its can get to 240-260, Then I drive it will cool down again. Any ideas what I can check to correct this? I dont know much about mechanics but I can turn a wrench :) Please help!!
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 27, 2008, 5:57 AM
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Re: 04 Chevy 1500 crew cab Getting hot
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This suggests fan clutch has given out or anything impeding airflow. You may notice it doesn't draw/pull adequate air while sitting still when warm with raised idle it should be near roaring when slightly over temp and try not to allow higher than norms,
T
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jaredjadams
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adamsj13@gmail.com
Aug 27, 2008, 9:19 AM
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Re: 04 Chevy 1500 crew cab Getting hot
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How can I tell if its bad? If it seems to pull the air through. Is there anyway to test it if its bad? I'll check when I get home this afternoon if its roaring. Is it hard to replace the fan clutch?
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 27, 2008, 8:03 PM
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Re: 04 Chevy 1500 crew cab Getting hot
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If it freewheels when shut down from a fast idle when warmed up/hot that's a good clue. It probably does take the special wrench and will be sticky where it mounts to front of water pump. Just a but nut and should be that type but check - there are a few engines listed for this,
T
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Jaredjadams
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adamsj13@gmail.com
Aug 27, 2008, 8:19 PM
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Re: 04 Chevy 1500 crew cab Getting hot
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OK, Replaced the fan clutch. It seems better but, I let it Idle for about 20 minutes and it went to about 230 deg with the air on. The AC still felt cold. I rev the engine up to 2500 -3000 rpms for about 5 sec and it cooled down some. I'm guessing thats a good thing? Would this be normal? Thanks
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 27, 2008, 9:31 PM
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Re: 04 Chevy 1500 crew cab Getting hot
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Easy on the RPMs at idle like that!
A temp gauge should warm up to one spot on your gauge and stay there whether it's 100 degress out or below zero - that's what a thermostat is all about.
I'll allow some fluctuation for real extremes but NONE of my own for decades on end will fluctuate when all is proper barring the wild extremes - in my case towing a way too heavy trailer once on hot day didn't cut it so well.
It improved as I would expect and it's good for it to be new. Now the question is why can't this stay stable??
Cooling systems 101: Thermostat can't open fully (less likely but who knows?) radiator already has some restrictions inside or out. Look and see just how clean it is of debris. Sometimes with engine recently shut OFF you can carefully feel for cooler spots fan side indicating internal flow problems in radiator. Next is a total system flush out looking for junk that comes out.
?? This new clutch made a difference but there should be a very noticable change from any older clutch. Last Summer went thru THREE clutches - two new ones would allow very minor temp fluctuations and an older Hayden HD from a parts car worked that best and it's been stable all this year too! It was the same bull - not enough air at idle and very low speeds.
If you run heater full blast will it stay stabil? If you mist water thru radiator while running that should be the normal operating temp and stay there.
Some possible "less likelyies" ---- water pump somehow isn't pushing enough flow at lower RPM - rare but it's happened. New clutch isn't any good - damn cheap junk they sell sometimes! Gauge isnt' reading real temps for you. I don't go wild over car's own gauge as to exacting #s but they should be stable.
One more for now. Pressure cap and system must be holding pressure. From cold just feel the upper hose and its lack of pressure and then again after warm up. If it isn't holding pressure that needs to be checked - pressure tester for system and cap or just replace cap. I reduce system pressure caps for where I live in moderate to low demand climate but that shouldn't be done for most folks. The pressure has everything to do with the boiling point. Any bubbles from boiling will cause erratic cooling so most vehicles use a 15-16 lb pressure cap which takes even plain water's boiling point up to about 257F or so. Without pressure and some altitude the boiling points can go below 200F so it is needed.
This is important enough to chase it down and fix. Any fluctuation without extremes just means when you may get in one there will be in trouble,
T
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jaredjadams
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adamsj13@gmail.com
Aug 28, 2008, 6:58 AM
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Re: 04 Chevy 1500 crew cab Getting hot
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I drove the truck to work today. After I let it run for a bit, I felt the top radiator hose and its pretty firm. When its cool, Its not firm and I can squeeze it. The fan clutch I got was a Hayden from Kragen autoparts, I think they may be advance auto parts back east. Hopefully thats a good brand. I will try to let it idle with the heater on full blast and see if its stable. If it is, what would cause it to stay stable with heater on? Im in California and the temps this week are in the 100 - 103. What are the possibilites that the therostat is bad?
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 28, 2008, 7:41 AM
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Re: 04 Chevy 1500 crew cab Getting hot
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Notes: Hayden is a good name IMO. There can be problems with any and there are different choices within a brand name so alone that's inconclusive.
Heater: You heater core is a small radiator itself and takes a fair amount of heat away from the engine thus puttig less load on the regular cooling system. If the added cooling boost stabilizes the temp it's highly suggestive of the existing system is incapable of adequate cooling alone which it should be at 100F if all things are in proper working order. If you said you were fully loaded at over 90F pulling a trailer up thru mountains and temp gauge crept up but not overheat I'd let that go as normal for the particular circumstance.
Pressure noted: Good, that's normal and needed.
Thermostat: Observations so far indicates it works some and we just can't know if somehow it does't open fully. However - if it didn't open fully it would more likely be a problem at speed which more need for coolant flow with the increased heat of load or moving along.
At the moment this still points to problem with adequate heat exchange because of air flow or the flow inside radiator is not clear enough. Flushing out this system is called for now by age and could only help and be informative as to how dirty it might be. Be sure to replace coolant with proper mixture - industry standard is 50/50 and if you have flushed with plain water you need to know the system capacity and add 50% of that back first then finish with water as there will be some remaining plain water in the system (engine) that won't just all drain out,
T
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Jaredjadams
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adamsj13@gmail.com
Aug 28, 2008, 8:33 AM
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Re: 04 Chevy 1500 crew cab Getting hot
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I was going through some of the work the owner before me had done, it shows on 2/28/08 he had the cooling system service. Flushed system, pressure tested, checked hoses and system for leaks, and installed coolinmg system corrosion control kit. That was done at 172,493 miles and now it has 194,000 miles. I'll flush the system this evening and see what the fluid looks like. The fluid in the overflow is pink, But I will take a closer look after work.
I really appreciate you taking the time and helping :)
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 28, 2008, 9:22 AM
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Re: 04 Chevy 1500 crew cab Getting hot
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Cool - no pun! Flushed that recently should have been enough?? No harm in it again if only to rule out and fact find by doing so. Suggestion: Peak (tm) and others make a lifetime anti-freeze (bull, but sure is comforting to know they are that confident) and also know that anti-freeze too strong is counter productive to cooling. You need it for corrosion control but it doesn't transfer heat well so setting the mix to ..... say -20 would be an advantage if you are comfortable with that temp protection. Lifetime or not it still should be changed especially in a GM with their DexCool lawsuits and that crap still being settled! You do not need to use the pink stuff (DexCool) and replacements will say they stand by using regular EG and they now sell colorless to avoid always ending up with some odd color if mixed in or added to.
Hey - I'd like to see this issue fixed for good. IMO an engine is much happier to stay at a uniform temp then always changing even if within "safe" zones. It matters more with engines that use alloy head on cast iron blocks which this probably does as dissimilar metals don't expand and contract at the same rate which is a challenge for head gaskets and more so the less stress on it the better,
T
Ps: Went thru this last year with one of my own (Ford product) same layout you have and the dang temp gauge would alter just the slightest which wasn't even close to being a problem but drove me nuts. I mean a random temp variance of maybe 5-10F and I'm too fussy for even that! It would do that in cooler weather also which was a real mind bender and after three fan clutches, two thermostats and a new radiator have solved it. Not sure which did it as it go so cold out later last Fall it didn't do it. Nobody needs to be that picky! Ah - my money, my car
(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Aug 28, 2008, 9:35 AM)
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jaredjadams
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adamsj13@gmail.com
Aug 28, 2008, 12:41 PM
Post #11 of 19
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Re: 04 Chevy 1500 crew cab Getting hot
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Another question, If the heater does keep it stable, (what does this mean) what things should I check that would make the truck run hotter? Should I go ahead and flush the fluids? Since there is pressure, do you think the radiator cap would be faulty?
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 28, 2008, 2:46 PM
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Re: 04 Chevy 1500 crew cab Getting hot
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RE: RUNNING HEATER WHEN HOT:
This is a bunch of information. If it won't blow warm/hot air that suggests it's plugged, waterflow is inadequate or perhaps has air/bubbles from boiling amoung other things.
The heater can take a significant load off of the regular radiator for the engine and all things that make it work suggesting that radiator or fan is a problem with a system known full of coolant. The trucks should have a radiator cap (pressure cap) on the radiator - some vehicles put that on the recovery tank - either way it needs to be known full of coolant at the radiator.
Note: If coolant is found low at the radiator this opens a new set of possibilities, leaks being first then there are other reasons that so far I'm not concerned with as it not indicated quite yet if we know it's full - IS IT?
From the start an engine that runs hot at lower speeds is usually an airflow problem. We seem to have ruled out the fan clutch which would be classic for that. Other things would be a plugged radiator from bugs or other debris or in vehicles with A/C the bugs usually would be caught first by the condenser (radiator or A/C) which is in front of the regular radiator. Both need to allow air to flow thru with little obstruction.
**************
It's of interest that this will cool down with speed AND seemed to with just a raised idle. Both lean to the airflow as a problem first. Water pumps can fail to pump a proper amount of coolant for a few reasons - all rare. Pump could be directionally wrong for this vehicle! Pump could have corroded impellers or perhaps a hose or parts is restricted in some way. At low RPM there is naturally less pumping simply by the speed of the belt over the pump.
The paradox is that at lower RPM there is less load in most cases so less flow of air and coolant would suffice.
Ex: At highway speeds the engine is working harder than you may think and hence making lots more heat to be "echanged" at the radiator. The speed of air thru grille is usually plenty adequate at highway speeds with or without fans. Some oddities would be a fan that was turning backwards - more often with electric fans wired wrong than with standard fans. EITHER WAY IT SHOULD BE KNOWN THAT FANS ARE PULLING AIR THE RIGHT DIRECTION - that would be noticed quickly by a seasoned tech or I would hope so and is not the most likely problem but let's throw that in.
~~~~~~~~~~~
There are oddities that cause problems out of mainstream problems with cooling systems. This may be one of those and we should chase it down and fix it asap BUT if this is overheating out of norms than professional help should be sought with all info and notes because overheating is highly damaging up to fatal to an engine. A real corker is getting a series of defective parts which once in a while happens. That can cause total hair loss!
Ok: So far we have improvement but problem is not completely solved - right? Let's see what we can find,
T
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jaredjadams
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adamsj13@gmail.com
Aug 28, 2008, 4:53 PM
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Re: 04 Chevy 1500 crew cab Getting hot
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After I came home today I let it idle for a bit, Temp went to about 215-220 with ac on. I turned AC off and full power heater. The temp started to decline close to normal. Maybe a 2-3 degrees different. But its 104 out today.
I talked with one of the shops today I had a smog test done and they said it wouldn't hurt to replace the radiator, since it does have 194000 miles on it.
Once the truck cools down, I will check the coolant and make sure its full. The reservoir seems correct. After it cools I'll post with my findings.
If I need to replace the waterpump or radiator, would that be something an average person can do? My mechanic skills are oil changes, plugs, wires, disk brakes, hoses and now Fan clutch.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 28, 2008, 6:28 PM
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Re: 04 Chevy 1500 crew cab Getting hot
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I don't recall you saying what engine is in this - that would help.
Radiators and waterpumps in a GM truck should be reasonably DIY friendly. I simply don't know how to blame them on miles alone and don't just replace those "just because" but will consider water pumps if it's off anyway for something else. Pretty sure you can visually see how clear a radiator is if cap is just so when coolant is lowered you can see the tubes inside for crust or blockage in some that might otherwise appear fine. Not totally sure why but some radiators will get a crust blockage that doesn't just flush out so easy and when I see that those get tossed.
Hey - the 104F actual air temp is getting into excuse area especially with A/C full blast as that adds heat while cooling you! That kind of heat in traffic is a test to a perfectly normal system and I'd excuse a slight rise within norms on a vehicle's gauge for that - BUT WITHIN THE SAFE NORMS!
It gets that hot in Massachusetts too but it's misleading if you look at records as that # might get posted as the day's high every few years but in reality it's only an hour or so it spikes to that. I suggest not using temps like that to look for normalcy unless you are in an area where that's routinely expected for longer durations and then it's realistic to consider bolstering a vehicle's abilities to cope with that with auxillary fans and so forth,
T
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Jaredjadams
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adamsj13@gmail.com
Aug 28, 2008, 7:42 PM
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Re: 04 Chevy 1500 crew cab Getting hot
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Sorry, I have the 5.3l
I checked the coolant level and its full. There is only a reservoir tank. I don't see a radiator cap any where.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 28, 2008, 8:28 PM
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That tank is then pressurized by the cap on it. It that type you can get a good idea of the system being full out of your sight by taking that pressure cap off, sqeezing the upper rad hose and watch the recovery tank get a swish of coolant in with NO BUBBLES and when releasing hose it draws back. That action self purges air out of the cooling system. If you have just opened up that type of system then there may be some remaining air for a short while and few cycles of warm ups and cool downs and then just coolant should remain. You said heater works and system holds pressure which is also indicative of it being full.
Also know that in systems like that when you open it for any reason (flush, hose replacement etc.) that you probably will need to fill the engine and radiator as best you can thru a high hose or it may have a plug (doubt that but don't know the engine well) to fill - then just temp cycling will self purge the insignificant amounts.
I haven't gone there with this but if you notice that hose pressure up quickly - a judgement call from stone cold it normally takes a few minutes to begin building up pressure from the expansion of coolant just getting warmer. If it pressures up very quickly or repressures when realeased while warm right away again it suggests a problem with air (combustion gasses under pressure) are getting into the system which creates wild odd cooling system problems but so far I haven't suspected that with this to go there further. Also - if that was the issue I would highly expect you to be reporting full overheats with barfing coolant to ground, heater not working and other problems not mentioned.
It would help me if you would report all recent observations and the ambient temp vs operating temps at what conditions. Laugh - it's cold here already just 53F right now and hard to think and feel the situation exactly as you are. I'm thinking more about the radiator and will go for a search to see what was available for this and that engine. There might have been a choice of heavier duty rads for this which should just fit with minimal or no problems - I'll check what I can find,
T
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jaredjadams
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adamsj13@gmail.com
Aug 29, 2008, 5:54 AM
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Re: 04 Chevy 1500 crew cab Getting hot
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I bought the truck last week and while test triving everything was fine. I let it sit and idle for a bit the when test driving. Didn't notice it getting hot. Couple days later, I drove down to central CA to visit family and we were listing to the radio with the truck off. I fell asleep and the battery drained. I jumped it and the let it charge for a bit, Drove up and down the street. Everything was fine. I let it idle for about 25 - 30 minutes while packing up our stuff to head home. Went to drive away and noticed the temp gage was about 245-250. I drove to my brothers house about 2-3 miles and the temp started to decline. The temp that I normally see it at is just under the 210 so I would guess 205 - 208.
Our summers here can be long a very hot. 3 years ago we had 20 + days of 110+ degrees. Thats a little abnormal, but it can be very hot. On average I would guess the summers are about 103 -105
I checked on prices for the radiator, and napa has one for 158.00, Kragen has them for about the same price and Autozone is a bit higher, about 230 - 340.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 29, 2008, 6:48 AM
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Re: 04 Chevy 1500 crew cab Getting hot
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Ok:
I did some searching myself on radiators and found the wild descrepancy in price and oddly NOT the HD or larger unit which was available in the GM truck chassis vehicles thru model year '99. '00 began a new chassis. You used to be able to get larger or thicker radiators and probably still can - couldn't just Google that so quickly.
Instead - perhaps it should go to a radiator shop for the best clean out, repair or a new core of the highest efficiency - you decide on what's available to you in your area.
Long thread here already. I think I'd go ahead and flush what you have now again, just up and relace the thermostat which also gets you a better flush with it out so why not start with a new one. Don't be fooled the a lower temp one will help - it actually will screw things up! My guess is that the OE temp setting for thermostat is 195 or so. It belongs there not lower and some folks will put a well known 180 T-stat in which isn't helping as both are wide open just one waits till the proper temp for the engine overall AND the computer controls that could be confused if it ran cooler too long on a cooler day altogether.
I think I understand the environment you will deal with and right now if you have the time - do the flush, t-stat, and lower the anti-freeze concentration to achieve say -10 at the strongest. There's a chart I stuck at the top of the "heating and air conditioning" post area that will show how many quarts will equal what so you need to know the system capacity and do the math. When flushed with clean water put the know magic # of quarts in first as there's still water left in the system that doesn't just all drain out but flush till only clear water is seen.
DIY troubles spots: The hoses will probably be a self tightening clamp that can be released with pliers - a special tool speeds up dealing with those but it's big bucks. T-stat should be straight forward - make certain it's placed in the right direction and clean gasket surfaces. Hoses are sticky even with clamps removed or backed out of the way. Go VERY easy on the necks of radiator and heater core! Gentle twists, even a cotter pin puller to slide between hose and "spud" it's called will release without hurting neck/spud and if real stuck just "Exacto" the hose and peel it off as the hose is expendable compared to the items that could otherwise be broken. You decide on doing new hoses or not - they aren't always cheap like the way old days but if they look bad don't cut yourself short if you are there anyway. Breaking those hose necks/spuds is avoidable and nightmare to fix - usually requires the parts to be replaced! Up to '99 GM used a funky heater hose connection not just a clamp. It may take a whole new one if replaced. Transmission cooling lines may be a "spring lock" connector. That's only an issue if you take whole radiator out and will need a tool for those. You aren't in a rust belt like here but I suggest putting something like WD-40 on connection you may ever need to be at later on now such they have a chance at actually behaving.
I'll go find that chart and post it below for anti-freeze concentration. This is more important than many think. Anti-freeze is a TERRIBLE coolant! Don't let label lie as they do. The boiling point is mostly dictated by pressure not the dang coolant which also is HORRIBLE at transferring heat so it's always suggested to mix it 50/50 is the worldwide suggestion but less concentration will perform better for high heat and extremes. Ex: some sports cars and all yachts I ever know of suggested even as weak as zero or above concentrations with the extreme workload on those engines well known. As said earlier in the thead, any adjustment weaker than 50/50 needs more frequent replacement or additives to control corrosion. If you expect to use a vehicle in extreme cold know that your concentration is reduced and leave the vehicle well marked near reservoir about this. No promises but EG anti-freezes will prevent engine blocks from cracking when frozen as the mix at a higher temp will contract rather than expand. It turns slushy such that vehicles will overheat in wild nasty way below zero conditions as it can't flow!
Last note on that for now: I don't trust the dang testers but the known quarts to capacity ratio is clear if you are paying attention,
T
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 29, 2008, 6:58 AM
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Re: 04 Chevy 1500 crew cab Getting hot
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here's the chart I was referring to. Note that the "boiling" points are counting on a 15 PSI pressure cap which is worth a boiling point increase of 45 degrees Fahrenheit by itself! The product doesn't help much there at all. It makes little or no comment about and none do on labels that anti-freezes are lousy at tranferring heat! You also still need it and especially it's anti-corrosive properties.
I'm gettin' old folks but they used to sell a product that was just called "Coolant" for areas that had no chance of freezing. That used to INCREASE the heat transfer qualities and had the anti-corrosion protection. Can't say if available or recommended now as that's certainly not for my area or most!
T
(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Aug 29, 2008, 7:02 AM)
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