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2001 Chrysler Sebring - Overheating
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mactube
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Aug 27, 2014, 12:08 AM
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2001 Chrysler Sebring - Overheating
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My 2001 Chrysler Sebering Convertible V6 / 2.7 L ist overheating.
Everybody who knows the Chrylser Sebrings around these making years, knows its the least reliable car of its decade. Now that I had pretty much everything repaired and replaced on the car the motor ( which has been replaced 2 years ago) is overheating. I took it to the shop where they replaced the sensors etc.. and know since it's still overheating they don't have now clue what it could be and just have wild guesses. I'm trying to avoid taking it to the Chrysler Dealership Service which charges $120 just to look at the car. The only clue I have from another mechanic is .. that the top hose which leads to the radiator is very soft which he things causes the cooling system to not have enough pressure . I really can't imagine that would cause the motor to overheat but maybe somebody has a tip for me.
( The car would overheat after like 20-30 min driving.. if freeway or city of cause sooner when its stop and go within the city. The Fan does come on as soon as the temperature rises .
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 27, 2014, 3:51 AM
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Re: 2001 Chrysler Sebring - Overheating
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OK - fan works and can do it moving but worse when slow or stopped so like any have to know all air is out of system and radiator is capable.
A soft hose wouldn't cause overheating by itself but suggests maybe oils have harmed it. Pressure check and toss any poor hoses in a system.
Guess for now is air in system from some issue and or can't hold pressure or combustion gasses entering cooling system. You are right that this car hasn't been so good to you and doesn't seem done with you yet,
T
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Discretesignals
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Aug 27, 2014, 4:18 AM
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Re: 2001 Chrysler Sebring - Overheating
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Does the heater blow hot air? If the coolant level is low, was it pressure tested? Have they use an inferred thermometer to verify the temperature at the coolant sensor matches what is happening on the gauge? When the fans come on, is the air blowing from them really hot? When the fans come on do they stay on or do they cycle off after running for a while?
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Aug 27, 2014, 4:19 AM)
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mactube
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Aug 27, 2014, 2:47 PM
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Re: 2001 Chrysler Sebring - Overheating
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@tom greenleaf ok from you suggestions I will have to see a specialized dealer since the people I deal with probably wont have the right tool to check the pressure etc.
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mactube
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Aug 27, 2014, 2:50 PM
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@Discretesignals the air condition in deed don't come on and I wont say it blows hot air but pretty much the outside temperature air I would say. Like I said the shop I took it too probably don't have all the right equipment to do pressure tests etc. So I might really have to take it to Chrysler !??
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 27, 2014, 11:43 PM
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Re: 2001 Chrysler Sebring - Overheating
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You might be able to rent a pressure tester. The soft hose suggests oil as said inside or somehow from outside. If oil from perhaps trans cooler in radiator is leaking into oil or oil into coolant it's not going to like that.
Head gaskets could leak any which way and things they seal in or out of allowing engine head to run properly on the block.
Said that if vapor when combustion gasses mentioned before could be the overheating or just poor radiator or components not up to par or working to do with cooling normally.
If need be get it diagnosed by a pro and decide from there what you want to do. Allowing it to overheat it will decide for you so your call,
T
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mactube
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Aug 28, 2014, 5:28 PM
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Re: 2001 Chrysler Sebring - Overheating
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@Tom Greenleaf I just did … they offer Pressure Testers at
Autozone for 89 Bucks as a deposit and let you bring them back .. so the rental free of charge.
So the result is:
The ( Overflow Reservoir Cap ) which goes up to 12 p.s.i
Will keep the pressure as it is ( wouldn’t go over 12 p.s.i
so the valve works1)
When I Test the complete System ( the tester is hooked up to the
Reservoir) I tested it 3 times with 15 p.s.i ..
The system holds the pressure and loses pressure : 2 p.s.i. per 5 minues
But when I test with running Motor the pressure will go up to 17 p.s.i.
There is a little leak .. just 1 little drop every 3 seconds.
I can’t see where it’s coming from but it just looks so little that I can’t imagine
The overheating comes from there especially since the pressure raises up when the
Motor is running.
Ther is one more thing I noticed..
The top hose going to the radiator about 3 times as hot as
The bottom hose . Like I said the top hose is very soft
I assume when it gets so hot with the pressure over the years
It just wears out.
I wonder how I can find out if the water pump is working..
@discretesignals and @tom Greenleaf all other possibilities , like finding out if fumes get into the system, I won’t be able to check!? So at that point, I will have to really take it to Chrysler.
Looking forward to hear your guys thoughts .
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Hammer Time
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Aug 28, 2014, 6:28 PM
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Re: 2001 Chrysler Sebring - Overheating
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Any amount of leak is a problem.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 28, 2014, 10:35 PM
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@HT Quote">Any amount of leak is a problem.<" Oh my, where's Nick? (inside joke)
Where it's dripping should be noted. Easy or a serious problem and that was your time to find it.
No leak in cooling system is acceptable. Pressure doesn't hold if you mean engine off and started cool isn't good. It would lose pressure cooling off and build pressure if you run it. While running and getting warmer it could exceed limits and blow the weakest item in system so watch out doing this.
The rental game from Autozone and others is good IMO for tools and equipment. Correct they want the cost covered up front for safe return - kinda no surprise there. Why own tools you might not use more than once for many? Keep in mind it is nice of places but beware as the diagnosis is YOURS not theirs and you alone are responsible for that. The parts outlets are there to sell parts. If it fixes your problem really isn't their problem. When you take a whole problem and hand it over to a shop then they do all this and you pay for that. We kinda get the idea on that don't we?
Not sure what each tester is like or what instructions might be with them rented (I never have) but ones I'm familiar with do NOT release pressure until YOU release it so running an engine you have to stop it for exceeding so much. Safe should be the rating on the pressure cap.
12psi and holding at radiator cap test is OK, IMO. Should match rating which is probably 15 or so, so close enough to work and that it holds is important.
Top hose is going to be warm to hot as engines let out coolant to radiator thru it. Then it cools for return or what would be the point?
Back to this soft hose thing: Not sure if normal or not so easily without being there. Warmer would be more pliable/softer if you will than a colder one if all else was equal. Old phart here. There was a day you tossed all of them every two years, flushed and new coolant, new radiator cap and belts too just because two years passed! People don't like taking care of things so now that would be unusual as a routine but do as owner's manuals suggest for times and miles for things all around.
Anything - when in doubt get help and you said you were which is good. Always take overheating seriously as you can easily lose an engine over it!
T
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 28, 2014, 10:54 PM
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Your post, posted before I read it. Neon fluid? Not so much for cooling system leak finding as you should see them or evidence. I do think they make a dye such that if it dries it can help with very slow ones.
Yes to new 16lb pressure cap. I said OK in that old one held not knowing or really how to trust equipment especially rented stuff unless comparing to another with knowns. Are caps all perfect to ONE PSI? I doubt it but real close and need to be.
The reason is that it raised the boiling point such that cooling system remains liquid not vapor and engines run too close or slightly over boiling points so pressure takes care of that. Exactly 3F rise in temperature before boiling for each PSI added. Vapor doesn't cool your engine, liquid does. Heater was mentioned. Even super hot vapor thru a heater or radiator doesn't transfer the heat - just take my word for it you can be overheating and blowing cold air thru heater to interior. In fact it that is ever noted it's a warning by itself actually late if boiling inside engine! T
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Hammer Time
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Aug 29, 2014, 2:18 AM
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Yes, they are putting some dye in the coolant these days but that isn't necessary. Coolant is very easy to identify and you just need to follow the leak to it's source and don't assume anything.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Aug 29, 2014, 2:19 AM)
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mactube
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Aug 30, 2014, 2:33 PM
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I don't like the way the new rad cap fits on the overflow tank its a little to easy to close the cap. The old one which didn't hold a a lot of pressure I had to close with some strength.. behind it.
The last pressure test showed a little ( pressure) leak on both ends of the top hose. I had to buy a new radiator
because the old radiator had been successfully repaired on the connector part / nozzle to the hose , now the new thigh smaller hose wouldn't fit on it.. Since the repaired nozzle is bigger than the original on and only fits on the old,soft, worn out hose.
I would love to get a brad new reservoir tank with fitting cap to insure new " high pressure" circle is closed.. but I'll be back on here in a couple of hours to report the result.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 30, 2014, 7:05 PM
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Not quite sure where your trouble is. Cap shouldn't be a pest at all. This hose not fitting doesn't add up to me. If you have incorrect parts you have to straighten that out for stuff that belongs and fits properly - cooling system is too important to fake anything so do it right or risk an engine over it,
T
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mactube
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Aug 30, 2014, 9:41 PM
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@ Tom Gree leaf not the hose didn't fit because the nozzle of the radiator has been fixed it was then wider then the original one, which was not a problem for the soft worn out one .. that one fit on there, but the new thigh one wont..
Anyway I just put the radiator in .. together with new hose. Not the car starts overheating even sooner.
5 Min. after I started driving with a totally cool system and new antifreeze the temp. went right up in the red . Is that the fuel pump ?
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 31, 2014, 3:04 AM
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Can you explain what you meant again as it's either me or your description not making sense? What would a fuel pump have to do with this?
New radiator just now and new hose doesn't fit - wrong parts!
For the short of it right now if just drained to do a radiator you are back to air in system already again if that's what you just did and how is this holding pressure and utilizing recovery bottle for it's purpose if hoses don't fit and seal that is lost.
You just may have head gasket issues and will be harder to verify if plain hoses and things are messed up for testing anything,
T
* PS: Who fixes radiator outlets or tanks? I don't know of any around me anymore as new became both easier, cheaper and more dependable plus is new not fixed up,
T
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mactube
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Aug 31, 2014, 7:15 PM
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Sorry @Tom Greenleaf .. this issue is driving me crazy .. looks like I got confused when I started typing..
I meant of cause the Water Pump not fuel pump .
... that the new hose didn't fit the old radiator is kinda hard to explain, but the last shop made the nozzle bigger when they repaired the nozzle on the radiator thats why new hose whig are much tiger then the old ones wouldn't fit .. but anyway.. not an issue anymore because I have new upper hose and a new radiator installed .. so now :
I just test drove it again.. and it took 20 min to overheat but then the temperature rapid went up. And before I started the car the coolant was leaking from the water pump area ! ( Which it hasn't before).
Than later when the car started overheating.. leak stopped !
Top summit:
- Overheating ( starts about 20-30 min after starting)
- Fans Work ( come on as soon as the temp. starts rising)
- Radiator new
- Top Hose new
- Top Hose gets extremely hot and lower hose stays relatively warm ( don't know if thats because the radiator works well and the hot water/coolant gets from the motor through the upper hose where it heats up the hose then into the radiator and cooles down there and then gets onto the lower hose where the hose don't become that hot anymore because it has been cooled down in the radiator ... or the water pump is not working and when the thermostat
opens the hot water/coolant gets into the upper hose and maybe slowly flows into the radiator and lower hose ( without the push from the water pump ) and therefore doesn't cause the lower hose to get hot!? both would make sense.
As of now I'm will say .. only good thinks happen .. and its the water pump
not the head gasket so I will have to have it replaced maybe $150 total..
I'm still looking for good advise !
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 31, 2014, 11:13 PM
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OK - Tired, sorry for mistakes on my part. Water pump didn't leak before these fixes so far so guess is it didn't hold pressure because of hose/radiator connections then pressure tested which left with engine running can exceed pressure (some types) blowing a seal in water pumps. No pressure with system intact really can exceed the pressure cap's rating, the tester will keep going way beyond that - forget for the moment if that.
It get hot quickly suggest it has air or vapor (combustion gasses from like a head gaskets are vapor) and still hot to touch but don't cool the engine.
Just looked and this water pump is timing chain driven and an alloy so subject to some corrosion. Impeller could be slow or impaired and would only know for sure looking at it and nuts not to replace pump if there. Pump looks like this........
  Part Number: BWP-9103Alternate Part Number: B 120-4190 Warranty: Limited Lifetime
Notes: This pump is driven off the timing chain. See vehicle manufacturer recommendation for replacement of timing components. *** Extended life antifreeze is highly recommended with this aluminum pump***.
The common first leak would be out a vent hole and could stop if fluid no longer there to leak or somehow at certain pressures?
I do think this will need a water pump but not convinced it's the up front issue yet but rather a head gasket putting combustion gasses into the cooling system. Nothing like overheating and despite this being older now it's still a mix of alloy metals and cast iron parts that REALLY don't like temp changes as they expand and contract at different rates hard on gaskets and alloys (include aluminum in that) cracks more easily.
What you might notice and bet pressure tester has been returned is fast pressure build up upon cold start up. You could also feel this in upper hose (only because it handy as pressure is throughout) first, then start up and pressure shouldn't be there so quickly but with combustion gasses would be long before normal expansion of coolant made pressure. You could EVERY SO CAREFULLY release pressure from pressure cap (WARNING WITH A WARM/HOT ENGINE FOR FLASH BOIL AND DON'T DO THIS IF NOT TOTALLY SURE OF YOURSELF AND WHAT YOU ARE DOING) and it would rebuild pressure again right away when cap installed again restarted, which is a strong clue the pressure isn't expansion but vapors - not what you want but I think that's the source problem now.
In short I'd do checks for head gasket problems on this while it's intact you can check more than if anything to do with cooling system is open or apart.
Sadly but they are common and messing with that radiator that ended up with wrong size hose diameter didn't help anything nor why it needed anything to begin with in its history.
Blaming a head gasket issue to me means ruling out as many other things that could fool that diagnosis. For this assorted tests of pressure, gasses in recovery tank, one or more spark plugs wet with coolant and more would be damning enough. Yup, they are costly and you don't know if heads are OK till they are checked out by a machine shop or plain seen when apart after testing is done about coolant because it's apart.
I can't know how much you want to dig into these things yourself or able to so think you should be seeking the right help from a tech and give him/her (yes gals into it too) know what the history is as you know it.
Both you and tech be up front with costs so nobody gets surprised if this gets costly or if time an alternative like stop now and sell as it is or choose something if bad enough or costly enough that you've had enough.
There's still a chance that it just isn't really full of coolant and free of air from draining and doing anything like radiator and hose things now thought a leak at water pump isn't looking like it's going to be all so simple now.
Get help if nothing more than a pro diagnosis and make moves from there as it's beating you up enough IMO.
Good luck, Tom
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mactube
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Sep 1, 2014, 7:00 PM
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thank you @tom greenleaf before I finally give it to Chrysler Service .. I will check if the pressure builds up with cold start and and eventually with block tester and then have another mechanic come by tomorrow and give his opinion and price on the water pump.
And yes you are right was much as I would like to find out what the problem is myself without overpaying the Chrysler Service .. I'm almost done here emotionally ..
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Tom Greenleaf
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Sep 1, 2014, 11:31 PM
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Good luck. You don't have to use a Chrysler only place to find out with some certainty. Said in the mess I wrote that I like a couple damning test results to blame head gasket work. They can leak assorted ways and certain tests aren't so accurate.
Knowing is always best. Invest and keep it or cut losses and put the effort towards another vehicle even if the same thing,
T
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mactube
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Sep 2, 2014, 12:38 PM
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Good News !
I just tested the cooking system for fumes and the test showed negative .. Another Mechanic will come bay to check out the fuel pump .. Will be back on here later.
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Hammer Time
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Sep 2, 2014, 12:54 PM
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That really doesn't mean squat. Those blue fluids tests rarely find the problem unless it's so bad that it was already obvious.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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mactube
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Sep 2, 2014, 4:26 PM
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There is not milky residue in the oil / cap and the if there were fumes in the cooling system which causes the engine
to overheat I think the block test liquid would detected that.
So I'm just assuming ( hoping ) the best .. that the head gasket is intakt.
Which would probably leave the water pump as one of the last options.
Another mechanic just came by who said he fixed a lot of water pumps before and he would charge me $220 bucks for labor to put the water pump in. I really think I will do that and hope this nightmare will come to an end.
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Hammer Time
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Sep 2, 2014, 4:43 PM
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You would be wrong to assume your head gasket has no issues. Like I said, that test rarely produces a positive result unless it is very severe. I certainly wouldn't be changing a water pump on nothing but a wild guess.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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mactube
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Sep 2, 2014, 6:38 PM
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@ hammer time since every other part of the cooling system hast been replaced its not just a wild guess .. to it looks like its the only component thats left to replace. The Block Tester might not be very accurate and able to tell if the head gasket really has a major issue, but if the fumes form the head gasket in the cooling system cause the over heating because they don't cool the engine , than they should be detected by the block tester fluid !?
Do you have another clue what it could be ?
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