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2002 Mazda Millenia S 26K miles - P1720 code and electrical issues all at once
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RamJacCorp
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Feb 17, 2021, 11:51 AM
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2002 Mazda Millenia S 26K miles - P1720 code and electrical issues all at once
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Car is great, except for a phantom battery drain. I found a weird reading from the electric seat fuse, so I pulled that one. Had to use a lithium-powered jump starting device to start the car, when the battery discharged after non-use for a few days. Jump started and ran fine. Yesterday, the battery was reading only 11.8 volts, but cranked fine. After about 10 minutes, my Check Engine light lit, then the HOLD light started flashing. A few minutes later, my dashboard illumination went out. Currently, I have lost climate control, defrosters, and the clock, as well. The car shows no other symptoms, and runs fine. Tester revealed P0500 and P1720, which both point to the Vehicle Speed Sensor. Haven't figured out exactly where that's located yet. I'm not sure that would be causing the other issues, though, would it? Is it possible that the jump start device hosed my computer or something? Or was it just coincidental timing for an electrical issue? Any ideas on how to narrow this mess down would be immensely appreciated.
Update: I discovered - by accident - that a blown radio fuse caused the dash light issues, so that's one problem solved. Hopefully, I'm just looking at a VSS replacement.
~ I know just enough to get myself in trouble ~
(This post was edited by RamJacCorp on Feb 17, 2021, 12:51 PM)
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Hammer Time
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Feb 17, 2021, 2:29 PM
Post #2 of 27
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Re: 2002 Mazda Millenia S 26K miles - P1720 code and electrical issues all at once
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The VSS has nothing to do with battery drain so that is another separate issue.
If you think you have a parasitic drain, then there is a way to look for that.
You might want to start with fully charging your battery and then having it tested professionally.
A word to the wise, it is a very bad habit to jump a dead battery and use the car to recharge it. These newer alternators are designed to maintain a battery but not to charge one from dead. That stresses the alternator severely and often causes a failure of the alternator.
There is a procedure for finding a battery draw like that.
You will need a digital ammeter and a jumper wire with clips on the ends to do this.
First rig any door switches so you can have a door open without triggering the interior lights and unplug the hood light. Remove one battery cable and attach the meter in series between the battery cable and battery post. Take the jumper wire and also attach it the same way. Leave the jumper wire on for at least 30 to 40 minutes to expire all the automatic timers. Now remove the jumper wire and read the meter. Anything over 50ma is too much draw. The way you locate this is to start removing fuses one at a time until the meter drops to normal level. This will be the circuit with something staying on. Determine what components are part of that circuit and check them individually until the problem is isolated.
Note that the act of pulling fuses will often restart some timers so you may have to wait for them to expire if that happens
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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RamJacCorp
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Feb 17, 2021, 3:41 PM
Post #3 of 27
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Re: 2002 Mazda Millenia S 26K miles - P1720 code and electrical issues all at once
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Thanks for the very helpful reply! I'm about to replace the old battery, so that will eliminate it from the mix. However, the battery drain has been a constant since I bought the car. It seems to be behaving better, since I pulled the electric seat fuse, which was giving me a weird fluctuating reading on the voltmeter. The problem now is figuring out which "speed sensor" my P1720 error is pointing to, and where the thing is located. Can't seem to find any useful info, and I've been searching hard. There are at least 3 speed sensors on this car (wheel, speedometer, and transmission/speed, and the trouble code doesn't specify which is the problem.
I never jumped the battery when it was "dead." I used a 10-amp charger to recharge it, and a few days later, the battery drain brought it down to around 11.5 volts, and that's when I jumped it. I do realize that's a lot "deader" than it sounds. Thanks for the tip about that.
I have been testing the fuses for the parasitic battery drain. I'll give your recommended approach a try. Thanks for that, too. Your description is a bit vague, but I think someone posted a video how-to online, so I'll search for that again.
Thanks again!
~ I know just enough to get myself in trouble ~
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Feb 17, 2021, 3:50 PM
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Re: 2002 Mazda Millenia S 26K miles - P1720 code and electrical issues all at once
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Friend: Can you put NEW battery on a "maintainer/charger" that's automatic with the new battery where you are or the car rather? If you cycle a new one to always have that drain you'll be playing "Ping-Pong" replacing battery and alternator till you do both! The common automotive battery is "Flooded lead-acid" doesn't tolerate being low well.
It's no like your "Lithium Ion" charger thing doesn't care from stone flat will come back again and again. Not so the car is the point.
Hope you can find it fast or you'll wreck the new battery and have been VERY lucky with the one there now.
Good luck finding the drain it's still work after you find which circuit sometimes,
Tom
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Feb 17, 2021, 4:05 PM
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Re: 2002 Mazda Millenia S 26K miles - P1720 code and electrical issues all at once
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Here's a pic I found
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RamJacCorp
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Feb 17, 2021, 6:32 PM
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Re: 2002 Mazda Millenia S 26K miles - P1720 code and electrical issues all at once
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Tom,Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, I don't have a safe way to leave it on a battery tender, so I'm stuck with it the way it is. Until I find the phantom drain, I have to just drive the car every couple days to keep it from discharging too much, and using my battery charger to prevent it from dropping too low on me.
~ I know just enough to get myself in trouble ~
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RamJacCorp
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Feb 17, 2021, 6:49 PM
Post #8 of 27
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Re: 2002 Mazda Millenia S 26K miles - P1720 code and electrical issues all at once
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Hammer Time,
Been using my trusty Craftsman digital multimeter. Hopefully, I had it set right - I'm no expert with that thing.
Thanks so much for sharing the instructions and the photo! You're going above and beyond, my friend. Problem is, I'm not sure that this is the sensor that's throwing the error. I've discovered 3 of them, (wheel speed sensor, speedometer speed sensor, and transmission speed sensor). The damned code doesn't specify which one is the problem. The transmission speed sensor looks like the most expensive one by far, so that's probably the culprit, right? haha. I have no idea if the "Output speed sensor" you mentioned is one of the 3 I know of, or if it's a 4th one. It doesn't look like the photo of the transmission speed sensor I found online, and it's obviously not the wheel speed sensor, because that's on or near the axle. What a mess, huh?
~ I know just enough to get myself in trouble ~
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Feb 17, 2021, 6:58 PM
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Re: 2002 Mazda Millenia S 26K miles - P1720 code and electrical issues all at once
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The output speed sensor is the one related to that code but the problem is not likely the sensor itself.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Feb 17, 2021, 7:00 PM)
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RamJacCorp
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Feb 17, 2021, 8:07 PM
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Re: 2002 Mazda Millenia S 26K miles - P1720 code and electrical issues all at once
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Well, I guess I've reached the limit of what can I do with this one, based on the combination of Swahili and Greek in that chart. I really appreciate all the time you've taken to try and sort this out for me, Hammer Time. I'll do some more snooping around the wiring to see if I can spot anything I missed, but it's looking like this might be beyond the abilities of this old DIY guy. Thanks again for all of your help!
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Feb 17, 2021, 8:14 PM
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Re: 2002 Mazda Millenia S 26K miles - P1720 code and electrical issues all at once
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Yes, diagnosing electronic issues in todays cars requires extensive electrical knowledge and equipment.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Feb 17, 2021, 8:20 PM
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Re: 2002 Mazda Millenia S 26K miles - P1720 code and electrical issues all at once
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Ram: OK, you knew of the "battery tenders" is what I meant if possible, it isn't so anything should be driven, not just sit for days on end.
Super low miles for a car you use or a typo? Been there, odd things happen to low use vehicles. Laugh - I have 3 on the road and nowhere to go? I have to use 2 just to keep brakes from rusting or get spots, batteries up on those. Tossed by about 4 years if I can have too many things and 10 on "tenders" right now!
Drive this car if it didn't have any problems at all. That's the point from here you and "HT" carry on. Last note on this is dam* batteries cause these crazy problems IT'S A ROCK AND HARD PLACE with machines with wheels! :-)
Tom
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RamJacCorp
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Feb 18, 2021, 3:00 PM
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Re: 2002 Mazda Millenia S 26K miles - P1720 code and electrical issues all at once
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You stated this all happened after the jump start and you found a blown fuse for the Dash Cluster my dashboard illumination went out that a blown radio fuse caused the dash light issues HT posted possible causes and it shows an Instrument cluster malfunction. So before you jump through too many hoops, it may be be worth a try . Clear the codes, drive the vehicle and see if any codes return. Just a thought.
That's a very good thought, thanks! I'm planning on doing just that. Actually, let me try to re-explain the situation, too: I charged the weak battery to 12.8 volts, everything was fine. A few days later, it was down to around 11.3 volts again. I had to go someplace, so I used the jumper gizmo. Again, everything was fine. Later that day, I removed 2 fuses, to see if the battery drain stopped - electric seats and radio. That seemed to help, because a few days later, I was able to start it right up. During that drive is when the check engine light appeared and the HOLD light began flashing, and the instrument lights and other items failed. I accidentally stumbled on a video where a guy had the same problem when his radio fuse blew (weird interconnected stuff in this car!). So, I replaced the radio fuse, and the dash problems cleared right up. Haven't tried driving it since, because we're being pounded with snowstorms this week. Hope I explained everything more clearly this time, and sorry for the long post.
~ I know just enough to get myself in trouble ~
(This post was edited by RamJacCorp on Feb 18, 2021, 3:03 PM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Feb 18, 2021, 3:27 PM
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Re: 2002 Mazda Millenia S 26K miles - P1720 code and electrical issues all at once
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Things seem to be leaning toward a bad battery. At 11.3 volts, it should have started on it's own.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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RamJacCorp
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Feb 18, 2021, 3:43 PM
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Re: 2002 Mazda Millenia S 26K miles - P1720 code and electrical issues all at once
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I'm hoping you're right, HT. I'll give it a test drive, once the roads are clear again (it's not the greatest in snow and ice, even with the TCS system), and if it behaves, pick up a new battery. Even if the battery's not the problem, it's 5 years old, and has been charged numerous times over the years, so it's due. Fingers are crossed that the warning lights won't come back.
~ I know just enough to get myself in trouble ~
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Feb 18, 2021, 4:09 PM
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Re: 2002 Mazda Millenia S 26K miles - P1720 code and electrical issues all at once
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Quote Ram: ">Even if the battery's not the problem, it's 5 years old, and has been charged numerous times over the years<"
That alone could be the problem? They can drain inside themselves being in liquid (electrolyte) allow flaking with age and abuse so many charges is abuse - not being critical of you it's the car I/we want to see fixed.
Low volts only after a time period as you said could be OK alone for say 4-5 days? Still power though to start it. Volts is "push" force and "amps" is the horse power if you will or volume of its power delivered.
If you lack total understanding of it watch the voltage drop when craning - you need a helper I would like to see that from the battery. If a power port/cig lighter stays with power when not in use that should be battery power exactly.
11.8V doesn't mean much by itself if you opened a door the lights came on it would drop to that and recover if good and you just waited.
Sorry about the snow I'll just say awaiting the "how much" game here in MA is not what I call a pounding rather it's normal for here.
BTW - alone cold or snow mean nothing to a battery in fact lower overall temps they last a tad longer than say AZ type smoking hot heat.
One more and done for now:
Q> Why the low miles on this? I ask only and if you know why? If a super local delivery vehicle getting no miles plus getting in and out all the time, short trips not enough to fully warm up it's just going to kill things like the battery. Engines aren't thrilled either nor a list of things,
Tom
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RamJacCorp
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Feb 18, 2021, 6:49 PM
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Re: 2002 Mazda Millenia S 26K miles - P1720 code and electrical issues all at once
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Hey, Tom - It's very possible that the battery is causing problems, but it's also possible, as you suggested, that not using the car regularly could be a factor, too. (I still think something is draining the battery, and I've heard others with these cars have similar issues. Some blame it on the flashing alarm system bulb (I doubt that could do it), others pointed to the stereo amp, etc. The wiring on this bugger seems kinda bizarre, but maybe other cars are wired like this too. I don't know much about vehicle electrical systems.
As for the low mileage, I bought the car back when I had enough discretionary cash to have a nice "weekend" car, and when I enjoyed driving much more, before the loony, distracted numbskulls took over the roads. Should've driven it more before we both got old.  It still looks like a new car, but it knows better.
Yeah, no comparison with the MA snowfall, I'll bet. Still, I shoveled 3 times today, just to stay ahead of it.
~ I know just enough to get myself in trouble ~
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Feb 18, 2021, 7:46 PM
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Re: 2002 Mazda Millenia S 26K miles - P1720 code and electrical issues all at once
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My cable service really lacks sorry for typos I swear I didn't make but see them later.
The "old" car thing with low miles. It or they are NOT always the bargain harder with dependence on so called computer controls down to lighting and virtually all adjustments to even this old a vehicle.
It's not covered by news too much other BS but a lot of "car makers" couldn't sell off what they already built pre-pandemic so quietly they get squished for their metal and other materials NEW vehicles!!!
They are junk from sitting still all around the new car dealers don't have an empty parking spot, the things don't start (dead batteries) the fuel spoiled, tires went flat it really suks and a waste.
It's 9:30 whatever the time stamp says is when this went thru not when I wrote it doesn't always match - sorry again I don't own my service it's the other way!!!
Your car with no miles really ask because you said stereo amp? Is this a factory sound system or what or don't know?
Just that is hacking up wires in search to keep it's memory of any presets in it and a clock by rights shouldn't use a watch battery up in 10 years but if unknown how it was installed it's the problem almost always.
Basics for vehicles post model year 1996 is don't touch OE set ups that use electrical anything. Yes things can be done, altered it's not generally worth the troubles it can cause.
Oh - the battery dance. It's prudent to consider a different type of the same idea I'm now using AGM batteries for machines of all sorts do not age the same way are still perishable things not so sensitive to discharge and recharging or vibrations. Save the wild novel just search out what they are vs "flooded" lead-acid.
Untested by me two are now 4 years old will be tossed when the place can assure me they are not already old when they come in.
That leave the other 8 things that use batteries to start them not vehicles always! I need a break from this crap and lockdown this is New England look at a map I could (younger than I am now) almost walk to all other states of the six, Tom
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RamJacCorp
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Feb 18, 2021, 9:14 PM
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Re: 2002 Mazda Millenia S 26K miles - P1720 code and electrical issues all at once
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I hear ya about messing with the electronics. My car's completely stock. Came with a Bose system in it. It's not bad, but I've heard better, to be honest. I read a post by someone who said the stereo amp behind the rear seat was drawing current. Don't know yet.
Don't know how much you know about the Millenia. It was Mazda's attempt to compete with Lexus and Acura, but they timed it poorly and made marketing blunders, and it never really got off the ground. It was supposed to hit the market with the "Amati" nameplate, but it was released as a Mazda, and people didn't want to spend big bucks for a Mazda, luxury or not.
I've heard about the AGM batteries. Don't know if that would solve my problem, but it's sure worth looking into - thanks.
~ I know just enough to get myself in trouble ~
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Feb 18, 2021, 10:36 PM
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Re: 2002 Mazda Millenia S 26K miles - P1720 code and electrical issues all at once
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Crazy! Bose headquarters is in Framingham, MA 01701! I abut that wildly overpriced but magic with sound systems at least once. Big bucks just pay and shut up!
Car companies also nasty completive to win selling their car NEW used to car about loyalty to a nameplate I think gone? So do mistakes happen with oddball options even new?
Who and where made it compatible with the car is archived also if a mistake don't want to fess up to it so it's hell on wheels now that it's old yet surely nice shape in general.
A huge IDK is Mazda and Ford's conquests with other companies perhaps in trouble Ford (my schooling was mostly Ford techs) no association with any of the makers. Ford sold Mazdas as Escorts + Mercury Lynx doing nothing but change the name plate! Same with small trucks and more. Got in bed with Jaguar and I'm sure regretted that - I'm being facetious how lousy one model really came out a mix of two??
Ford also spent a freaking fortune for MIT Mazz Institute of Technology in Cambridge world known for wild geeks. (joke folks)
MA made all the watches for the US in Waltham and makes or made the paper the US dollar bills are printed on! No joke.
Off the wall it's not a state first it's a Commonwealth so are you and two others - not snooping I/we can see where your signal (IP) comes from nothing more. It can be wrong too.
Now back to this car, scene and situation? Just put a new battery in it but charge the new one first please they are NOT fully charged when new!!! No joke again!
It should come with a free replacement for 1-2 years no matter how you kill it the selling places are NOT on line they are hazmats!
Other: I'm waiting for that dang snow storm you just had isn't here and it's the 19th already! Tom
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Feb 19, 2021, 4:56 AM
Post #22 of 27
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Re: 2002 Mazda Millenia S 26K miles - P1720 code and electrical issues all at once
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Don't get ahead of yourself.
Change the battery. That could be the whole issue with what you think is drain.
The factory stereos are wired as "key on" only so unless somebody did some creative wiring, I doubt that is the cause of your problem.
The flashing LED security light is definitely NOT your problem.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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RamJacCorp
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Feb 19, 2021, 7:53 AM
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Re: 2002 Mazda Millenia S 26K miles - P1720 code and electrical issues all at once
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HT - it's amazing how much useful - and less-than-useful - info you can find on the internet. There are folks who swore that swapping an LED for the alarm system bulb solved their battery drain problem. I can't imagine how that little bulb could be the culprit. I guess nothing is impossible, though, huh?
I do appreciate your suggestions, tips, and assistance. Hope you have a great weekend!
~ I know just enough to get myself in trouble ~
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RamJacCorp
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Feb 19, 2021, 7:59 AM
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Re: 2002 Mazda Millenia S 26K miles - P1720 code and electrical issues all at once
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Tom - Thanks for the tip about charging the new battery. Never heard that before, but it kinda makes sense.
I totally know what you mean about the car companies. I bought my Saab 900 Turbo long before they were popular, and loved that car like family. Was devastated when GM bought and destroyed it.
Have a good weekend, my friend.
~ I know just enough to get myself in trouble ~
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