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Car loves to stall... Constantly
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aaron_knotty
Novice
Jan 15, 2015, 12:13 PM
Post #1 of 19
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Car loves to stall... Constantly
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Ok here's the story. I've got a 2005 Ford Escape 3.0L. I was driving home one day and my car starts shutting down and my car dies. Come to fine my altinator got an internal short and went out.
I get a new altinator and install it. After having to deal with the top mounting bolt being seized in the block. I finally figure out how to work with it and get the new one installed. Power is perfect. Things are running great!
I drive out of town 2 days later, and things are good. Then the next day, as soon as I get on the interstate, my car dies. I pull over and sit for a minute thinking my new altinator was bad. But my car still charged and it started right back up. Then 10 min. Later. It dies again. Thinking it may be related to the fact that my battery was really old. I make my way to a parts store near by (convinient). They test my battery and it test crazy low. So I buy a new battery. Still the issue is there. I make my way over to a mechanic and he throws it on a diagnostic. It shows up that the crankcrankshaft position sensor is missing some signals and the car dies. He doesn't have tI me to install the new sensor soon enough. So I go change it myself. Car run fine!
For one day... now the car dis even quicker. No idea what to do. Here's a list of everything I've done:
1. New altinator
2. New Battery
3. New CKP sensor
4. New fuel filter
5. CKP harness tested fine
6. Both new and old CKP sensors tested the same on an ohm test. Making me think the sensor was never originally bad.
7. No check engine lights illuminating
I tested the harness and one pin was hooked to ground and the other not. So I thought it was fine. But then I found a ford wiring diagram. That showed both pins of the sensor going to the pcm. And those two lines being shielded by a sheild going to ground. So would I be correct in thinking the the harness has a short? I don't know fords methods enough to know if the would add a ground inside the harness and not note it or something. And if so, would that cause the car to keep dying? Cause it be a pcm issue? But if so, why now? Eight after I fixed the altinator. Could it be a vacuum issue?
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jan 15, 2015, 1:05 PM
Post #2 of 19
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Re: Car loves to stall... Constantly
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#1 for right now - is the battery staying charged and charging system working properly now?
OK - Batteries and alternators need each other and cute can kill each other so not totally surprised at needing both if alternator really did short out and they can.
What might be the problem is all memory was lost in changing out these things without leaving a memory saver for the vehicle. Some to many have adjusted to hold idle properly and perform properly based on so many cycles and now that could all be lost and takes either a procedure (don't have it for this) or many cycles of warming up and cooling down and some driving around the block type thing will restore the adjustments for condition the engine is working with.
If this isn't just stalling at low RPM there should be a hard code and engine CEL light on but maybe not. Needs a full code reading as if one is just pending hasn't had time to keep the light on OR the CPS sensor if really was a problem didn't go properly and code reading should show that now I would think.
You could clean throttle body now and IAC and help it now and if dirty should anyway,
I've noted this more in GMs when memory is lost than other makes but think it could happen to many,
T
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aaron_knotty
Novice
Jan 15, 2015, 2:02 PM
Post #3 of 19
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Re: Car loves to stall... Constantly
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So, I went out and tried do the relearn for idle according to the manual. But I says to drive it 10 miles. But I can't get that far around to drive it. I did notice that it only stalls once at operating temp. Do you think that the pcm cold have lost something vital from being unhooked? From everything I've read. It's not vital to use a memory saver on my model. But could be wrong. My though tgough. Is if it was the memmory. I feel like it would have happened right away after my altinator install. Instead of waiting a few days. Also, it doesn't matter tge rpm when it dies. Which makes me think I can rule out fuel or vacuum. I also did I full cleaning on the whole intake about 6 months ago.
(This post was edited by aaron_knotty on Jan 15, 2015, 2:06 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jan 15, 2015, 2:41 PM
Post #4 of 19
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Re: Car loves to stall... Constantly
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If, if, if this was a relearn thing it should take several cycles. You get a "grace" period till it warms up then goes into closed mode.
Can you double foot this when it wants to stall to keep it going and drive it more?
Others here will have better ideas on any if any relearn issue. Also just look if shorted alternator cause any visual wrinkling or burning of wires at it or to it.
Never say never but doubt this wrecked a pcm. Dare say if it ran at all you'd have hard codes for assorted malfunctions if this harmed more than alternator and battery.
It still need to be sure that it's charging while running when it does run. Only have so long on just the power in the battery if not all working or it soon wont start at all again,
T
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aaron_knotty
Novice
Jan 15, 2015, 2:48 PM
Post #5 of 19
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Re: Car loves to stall... Constantly
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Ok awesome. Thanks! I put my fluke on the battery yesterday and recorded the voltage. The whole time it was running it was steady. Evan until it shut down, the voltage never went down.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jan 15, 2015, 3:06 PM
Post #6 of 19
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Re: Car loves to stall... Constantly
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Fluke? What did the voltage read. It shouldn't be the same after the engine if shut off for long like one second, then show about the real voltage of the battery.
General 12V systems. Good battery fully charged about 12.6V. Cranking unless weak or VERY cold may drop to perhaps 9.5 to 10.5V perhaps and come right back up to usually a 14V+ for a while and settle down in the 13+ volt range maybe low 14s.
I'd like others to chime in on this too but that's basic for a battery starting a vehicle of all sorts. It takes current and amps OUT of the battery when cranking (the largest load on a battery) then instantly want that put right back such that it's always at full charge. While running the alternator is really running the items with the battery kinda keeping things steady.
If you are just running on a charged battery and volts don't change off, cranking or running it isn't working. Once running the ignition, fuel pump, some lighting are consuming amps OUT of just the battery essentially running it dead again. Some may recover some if not run too long but there's only so long it will stay running if voltage drops off or run real lousy then stall out but usually by then wouldn't have enough reserve to crank engine again.
Put #s to your observations. For the moment doesn't sound like it's charging at all? Some vehicles/batteries may only run well for less than a hour if so,
T
T
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aaron_knotty
Novice
Jan 15, 2015, 3:12 PM
Post #7 of 19
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Re: Car loves to stall... Constantly
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I'm not sure it's due to the battery not charging. With all this happening. The battery still hold a charge. And is getting charged each time the car is on. IIf it wasn't charging. The battery would be dead by now. Since I've been working on it for a few days. The car isn't gonna run for this long on just battery, wit no degradation in battery voltage. I think it has to do with some other syatem. Mostly cause it only stall when it's at operating temp. Also a Fluke is just a band of multimeters.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jan 15, 2015, 3:16 PM
Post #8 of 19
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Re: Car loves to stall... Constantly
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I want the #s observed not guesses. I can't know how long a battery would keep running at all if not with help from the charging system. It's possible to part charge and you could see that too - just idle speed and run all lights, blower, RWD while ovserving volts or it may stall it!
T
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aaron_knotty
Novice
Jan 15, 2015, 4:26 PM
Post #9 of 19
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Re: Car loves to stall... Constantly
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Sorry i didn't include that I did get the numbers already. What the fluke does is have a feature where you record voltage. And it shows the min. Max and avg. The engine sits at 14.25v steady while the car is running. Then doesn't drop until "after" the car shuts down. Then once the car is off the voltage starts to run down until it sits at 12.45v.Then once I start the car again. The voltage does the same thing. To me that shows that the charging system is working fine. But I could be missing something important. Thank you for your help!
(This post was edited by aaron_knotty on Jan 15, 2015, 4:28 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jan 15, 2015, 10:51 PM
Post #10 of 19
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Re: Car loves to stall... Constantly
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Gotcha. Sorry, I just don't use the term fluke, rather voltmeter, DVOM etc. Those #s are indicative of a working charging system. Now let's get this thing NOT to stall. Improper voltage would be the first thing to know as if would effect everything.
Still could use a code reading and I/we need to know if this will always start right up or what the behavior is when it begins this stalling thing.
Are there any clues leading up to this that might help? If not just have to treat this by checking all functions are in order, ignition, fuel delivery and on time. Fuel pressure taken and again get a code reading.
I'll still wonder if when alternator shorted if anything at it, nearby or elsewhere was damaged especially showing heat damage to plugs ins or wiring as mentioned earlier?
T
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aaron_knotty
Novice
Jan 15, 2015, 11:24 PM
Post #11 of 19
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Re: Car loves to stall... Constantly
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Ok, l'll re check around the altinator and see if I see any damage at all. When I tested the wiring harness today to showed one of the pins on the ckp shopted to ground. When according to the ford diagram. I showed that both pins go into the pcm and neither to ground. But they're surrounded by a ground sheild. But when I tested it.(unplugged from pcm) it showed one pin going to pcm pin and ground. Which makes me think maybe the harness took a bad nick or somethjng during the altinator intall. Do you think it would be a good idea to chase that or should I check the other stuff first?
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jan 15, 2015, 11:30 PM
Post #12 of 19
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Re: Car loves to stall... Constantly
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Yes - Chase that down. Sorry to mix this up first with a re-learn issue as to me not so common on this type vehicle just wanted that ruled out. Now you have something to chase which is actually good news to find SOMETHING,
T
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aaron_knotty
Novice
Jan 15, 2015, 11:36 PM
Post #13 of 19
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Re: Car loves to stall... Constantly
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Ok great! I'll report back tomorrow. Thanks!!
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jan 15, 2015, 11:46 PM
Post #14 of 19
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Re: Car loves to stall... Constantly
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Late here and will be off line soon. At least there's something to check out now, put back in order then see if it needs more or not from there, Tom
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aaron_knotty
Novice
Jan 16, 2015, 2:18 PM
Post #15 of 19
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Re: Car loves to stall... Constantly
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Well I ran new wiring from the pcm to the ckp senor and looks like it's fixed! I put a heat sheild around the wires as a pro caution also. Since the wires run between the altinator and the block. But I think what happened was the harness got pinched during the altinator intall and shorted out the harness. Cause I found a spot on the old wires that was smooshed. But I ran it for 30min. Then drove it about 6 miles and no issue. Thanks again for all your help!!
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jan 16, 2015, 2:55 PM
Post #16 of 19
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Re: Car loves to stall... Constantly
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Great, sound like you nailed the problem.
Now - if whole new wire is replacing a damaged one still pay attention and hope you have also soldered and shrink wrapped where you spliced in. Also, wire is not all the same. Automotive wire is usually quite heat tolerant and can flex without breaking better than just any common wire.
I never find the best wire by the roll or length yet dammit. Belden I think comes as close as I can find at NAPA.
Only reason I mention it is auto wire anything especially exposed and under the hood stuff has to put up with more crap than any. Heat, oils, vibrations, cold, chaffing and stay flexible. New as your fix is it might be the first thing you need to tend to again is what I'm saying.
Sorry it got squished in the first place and think you will be fine. Just keep it in mind if it happens again that the new may not be close to as good as the first one. Good luck with it and think you are fixed up for now,
T
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aaron_knotty
Novice
Jan 16, 2015, 3:01 PM
Post #17 of 19
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Re: Car loves to stall... Constantly
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I did solder the splices (I'm a audio studio tech by trade) and used shrink wrap for each splice. I don't trust crimps! But I got some high quality auto wiring left oover from when I made a new wire harness for my motorcycle. And mare suse I zipped alol the wires away from trouble and covered it up as good as possible to protect it from all the engine crap. Thanks!
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jan 16, 2015, 3:28 PM
Post #18 of 19
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Re: Car loves to stall... Constantly
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Geez - send me a PM where you find good wire! Sound like you did the fix better than 99% of most who would attack this - great.
More about this wire thing: Check out home wire for example. First just handle the wire to a table lamp then compare that to wire used for a toaster or flat iron. See the difference in flex right there.
NAPA sells pre-made jumper wires for testing that has excellent wire with alligator clips already on it but doesn't sell that grade of wire separately? It's just a pet peave with me that if I fix something like you did I'd like it better than it was and never hear about the fix being a problem again later, Tom
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jan 17, 2015, 10:46 AM
Post #19 of 19
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Re: Car loves to stall... Constantly
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I believe the CKP wires are twisted and shielded. If you didn't twist or shield your overlayed wiring, the PCM may see a lot of EMI on the crank sensor circuit. Just some FYI.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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