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Jumpskin
User
Nov 25, 2015, 7:56 PM
Post #1 of 73
(3751 views)
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I have a 86 Ford Bronco with a 302 engine and need a new carb. It is a 2 barrel carb. Will any 2 barrel fit such as an edelbrock or holley or will only the rotorcraft that is on it work? Do all 2 barrel carbs that fir 302s work with any 302 engine? Thanks in advance!
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 25, 2015, 8:12 PM
Post #2 of 73
(3745 views)
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You can't put a 4bbl on that 2bbl intake manifold. The only way to use a 4bbl is to change the intake manifold also.
You would probably still have to do some adapting with fuel lines and linkages.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 25, 2015, 11:52 PM
Post #3 of 73
(3736 views)
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They used to make an adaptor thing to do that which does nothing unless you think thru the whole show. The intake is designed for no many CFMs and that's it. Then on to heads, thru those and on out. Just bigger or more at the inlet doesn't mean engine can make use of it. Wasted money as no reason engineering wise a 1 barrel can't do what 2 or 4 could it's about how well you atomize how much fuel only and precisely , no more,
T
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kev2
Veteran
Nov 26, 2015, 6:30 AM
Post #4 of 73
(3718 views)
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use the correct carb... no need to modify rig etc.
KISS
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 26, 2015, 6:57 AM
Post #5 of 73
(3713 views)
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Was this thing carbed from the factory? What is the 8th digit of the VIN?
If it is carbed, those things wouldn't run worth crap if the rest of the system wasn't working correctly. It would be feed backed and idle speed controlled along with possible variable venturi. I don't even know how the older techs put up with that junk.
If the computer is missing or not functional, your best to find an old Motorcraft 2150 that isn't feedback controlled and slap it on there.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Nov 26, 2015, 7:07 AM)
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Jumpskin
User
Nov 26, 2015, 8:54 AM
Post #6 of 73
(3704 views)
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Thanks everyone. I have decided to either repair or replace with same unit.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 26, 2015, 9:31 AM
Post #7 of 73
(3703 views)
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Good move. Think about how it works. Carbs w/o ramming air or turbo charging are limited to atmospheric pressure to be sucked into engines not pushed in any way. Adding chance of more CFM (Cubic Feet / Minute) can't do more than the design of the engine, RPMs achievable, and a lot is involved with the cam and heads plus for carbs compression ratio can draw in more faster. Intakes and carbs so nothing but waste $ and make them run lousy if trying to give it more than it can use. The stuff to do all this is sold all over still and people don't get it.
Fuel must totally evaporate or is just a fire not power at a ratio known at about 14.5 to 1 air to fuel with real gasoline which isn't sold anywhere I know now.
Understood it's all in good fun and show but it doesn't work. The carb will only mix up as much as the airflow thru it which is limited to the rest of the engine's ability so a waste or worse to mess with unless seriously well thought out and can be done,
T
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 26, 2015, 5:17 PM
Post #8 of 73
(3692 views)
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If this carb is feed back controlled, you still have to make sure that the EEC controller can control the throttle kicker, the mixture control solenoid, and receive inputs from the tps, coolant temp sensor, MAP sensor, and the O2 sensor. If the feed back solenoid isn't duty cycled properly, it will never run right. Also if the engine is old and tired, you'll definitely never get it to run correctly.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Nov 26, 2015, 5:21 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 26, 2015, 11:34 PM
Post #9 of 73
(3681 views)
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Night shift for a bit.
DS - incomplete on what this is. I forget when "we" quit calling a 302 that and called it a 5.0 so could date to introduction of that # in 1968, same thing was a 289 in '67. First general idea about 1960 was a 225 I think - we are pushing it.
This block proved tough but usually a dog for brute power. Not well supported for the aftermarket nor motor companies when performance was the desired goal.
Still made new for 2016 all altered only for trucks - no comparison.
Was made as a bulk work horse and for non automotive use as well one of few counter rotating engines available not sure why for trucks and obvious for marine use long discontinued wiped out rightfully by GM's small and large block V8s.
Again - this engine block was never the choice to play with for performance but well proven for plain boring durability left OE for all but a couple model years since its inception,
T
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Jumpskin
User
Nov 28, 2015, 1:10 PM
Post #10 of 73
(3658 views)
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Thanks for your help. I now am looking at the EGR valve and it has been blocked. Do I need to replace it and open it back up or keep it blocked?
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 28, 2015, 3:01 PM
Post #11 of 73
(3652 views)
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Not sure as I don't know what model year the engine was intended for and how you hook that one up. If you have the one the belonged on it with a vacuum hose just plugging the vacuum hose defeats the WORKING EGR alone which could be a test looking for troubles caused by it leaking.
The general idea of them is to put spit of exhaust gases into incoming mix of air and fuel prior to combustion which both reduced emissions AND helped with ping or knock at part throttle request on the engine. They don't do squat at idle or when full throttle requested so not really about performance. My issues with them have been leakers, lousy idle because it leaked exhaust in when it shouldn't.
This is now a cobbled in engine if really called a 302 for a carb instead of injected so not sure now if it would just complicate making it run well how you hooked it up to work?
IDK - if it runs well, no knock in just this case I might just leave it off and plugged with a plate once available might be there now?
For an engine to idle smoothly the camshaft design already leaves exhaust valve open just a nanosecond while intake stroke is working and draws back just a spit of exhaust all the time. Sounds contradictory but spent and hot exhaust actually cools the combustion hence less chance of know plus lowers emission on purpose or a side effect depending on model year.
I'd worry about other things first for just this case unless knock it noted now at part throttle,
T
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Jumpskin
User
Nov 28, 2015, 5:48 PM
Post #12 of 73
(3641 views)
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My truck is an 86, but someone at AutoZone said the parts did not belong to a 86 Bronco engine, but an earlier 302, maybe from a Grand Marquis. From what I can tell it is a 77 Bronco engine. It does not run now and hasn't for about a year and hasn't run well for about 8 years so I don't know if it knocks. I got it "fixed" about a year ago for a large sum, but it quit running after about a month. I am now trying to learn to do everything myself (and fixing a car that doesn't work is the best way to learn, worst case it just does not work.) In the past it always sputters out when idling which hopefully will be cured with the carb rebuild. I will probably keep the EGR sealed and see how it runs and if something goes wrong then I might look into opening back up. What symptoms should I be looking for after I get it running? Just knocking?
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 28, 2015, 10:55 PM
Post #13 of 73
(3629 views)
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Wish we could find out what it is. Forget Mercury - they don't make trucks and Marquis' smallest engine was a 400 for 77.
Right now let's start over as now you 've said it doesn't run at all and hasn't for a year!
Begs the question is it together at all or what right now?
Back to beginning please.
Is this now an all crank no start engine issue? Forget all the rest if still at it was when running need to find out what's missing that it doesn't run at all including can it do anything or what?
Basics: Does it crank, does it have spark, will it so much as react with starting fluid even if a carb isn't on it at all?!!!!
Gotta know what we are working with or this is getting impossible. Please don't even think Mercury and Truck in the same game as it would be a lost cause - that guess had to be wrong yet Mercury cars did sell 302 - 2V engines on others no trucks and IDK if all 302s of the vintage were counter rotating or not but think they were?
T
(edited out some confusion + a typo. Too confused already with what we have here at all)
(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Nov 29, 2015, 1:24 AM)
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 29, 2015, 1:52 AM
Post #14 of 73
(3620 views)
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Can you take a picture of the engine and post the link in here?
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 29, 2015, 6:06 AM
Post #15 of 73
(3613 views)
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Agree - It may be our only chance to help as it's so unknown what the heck is going on or what engine it is, how controlled including what was likely hacked up.
Quote from back a few ">>It does not run now and hasn't for about a year and hasn't run well for about 8 years so I don't know if it knocks. I got it "fixed" about a year ago for a large sum, but it quit running after about a month.<<"
OMG does that comment alone mess up this! If it was all OE anything that history alone would be a challenge!
T
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Jumpskin
User
Nov 29, 2015, 9:11 AM
Post #16 of 73
(3605 views)
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After researching further I found that it is at earliest an 80 and latest an 83 302 Ford Windsor engine for a Bronco. I had it running a couple of days ago, but the carb kept flooding it out and pouring out the top like a fountain which I believe was caused by a stuck float. That is why I am rebuilding the carb. I have replaced the fuel pump, water pump, fuel filter, battery, solenoid, belts, and ignition wire.
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Jumpskin
User
Nov 29, 2015, 9:13 AM
Post #17 of 73
(3603 views)
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I also changed and gapped spark plugs and replaced air cleaner.
(This post was edited by Jumpskin on Nov 29, 2015, 9:16 AM)
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Jumpskin
User
Nov 29, 2015, 9:19 AM
Post #18 of 73
(3601 views)
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The latest year a Motorcraft 2150 was put standard on a 302 is 82 and the earliest year the water pump that fits this truck fits on a 302 is 80. This is where I narrowed down the age of the truck.
(This post was edited by Jumpskin on Nov 29, 2015, 9:49 AM)
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Jumpskin
User
Nov 29, 2015, 10:28 AM
Post #20 of 73
(3589 views)
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That is why I am rebuilding the carb Where did you suddenly get the know how and equipment to rebuild a carburetor? This is not a simple matter to set up a carb correctly and normal, over the counter chemicals are not going to do the trick to get this carb breathing properly..
Learning as I go. I have a tachometer for adjusting idle after re-assembly. What chemicals will I need? I have chem-dip to use once needed. Will that not suffice? What would your suggestion be? I would like to learn to do it myself rather than have someone else do it so I can restore other cars as well.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 29, 2015, 10:34 AM
Post #21 of 73
(3584 views)
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My suggestion would be to purchase a factory rebuilt unit and not even mess with that one. Throwing a set of gaskets into a carb is no rebuilding. Mechanical wear and internally restricted passages are not going to be fixed with a set of gaskets, even if you do figure out how to put it back together which is doubtful.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 29, 2015, 10:36 AM
Post #22 of 73
(3582 views)
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This is still real hard for us except knowing a carb # helps a bit if the right one on it at all as a couple seem to be used?
Tough for info exactness - if you have an accurate rebuild kit hope it tells you EXACTLY what the float should weight. They can sink and flood out like you mentioned I dare say from use of ethanol in fuel now but not when these were made new.
Sample of one of two...........Weight:0.06 lbs
Looks similar in material at least to this.....
Just like a toilet tank that floats and pushes down on the needle valve to stop flow when full to correct level. Wild flooding of engine if either needle valve at fault or this way too heavy, saturated with fuel will or could so badly flood engine could ruin new plugs in no time and so much cylinder wash fast wear especially if you find fuel odor in oil worse if oil level is too high from last know correct!
Totally understood you are motivated and want to learn. This isn't impossible stuff by itself one by one problem but at lot of some of this is highly learned from lots of experience and very precise instructions.
OK - you pointed out it floods over which is a reason not to start but check for spark friend too. If this was just flooded out and not in oil yet I think line right before fuel pump is rubber and could pinch it off and probably ruin it but cheap enough. Idea is stop fuel from flowing at all on purpose. Then hold choke open carefully with nothing that can fall inside and spray starting fluid down carb. It should start right up for a few seconds or longer if you keep spraying a little at a time get oil pressure up.
NOTE - STARTING FLUIDS OR OTHER ANYTHING TO FORCE IT TO RUN IS NATURALLY QUITE DANGEROUS!!!! Don't unless ready for anything. Read containers of what you might try. Some carb cleaner will work, some wont, some brake cleaner is flammable the name brand ones are purposely not and say so on the cans look for yourself on brand name Brakleen (no typo) what it says.
I'm worried about the time spent running lousy and understand highly likely can run with so much flooding of fuel now too.
Just a friendly suggestion on the project as a whole. Watch out for how much you spend as this could be a junk engine now and harder to tell for absolute sure till it's been thru a compression check which isn't going to say much till it has been forced to run for even a short while as lifter may have collapsed or more.
This doesn't even address cost of exhaust and more that's probably wrecked - converter junk and rest rusted from sitting plus front pipe was probably something made up to fit at all? Can't know.
Tough situation for a learning vehicle for a lot of reasons,
Tom
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Jumpskin
User
Nov 29, 2015, 10:49 AM
Post #23 of 73
(3578 views)
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That is the exact float. Ethanol ruins everything especially small engines. It ran for about 40 seconds before flooding each time. There is a lot of rust, but it could probably work well enough for a work truck to drive around property. The line running from fuel line to carb converts to rubber.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 29, 2015, 11:02 AM
Post #24 of 73
(3575 views)
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Ya - gave up the battle with plenty of yard stuff because of ethanol and bought electric for the little I need for certain things.
Forgot or rather wasn't thinking of rubber fuel line from fuel pump to carb not legal BTW is supposed to be metal tubing but people do that. If you want to try my test pinch that. Fuel pump knows when to quit trying to put more out.
Rust in fuel. Been thru that with other recently. Magnets, especially small but strong pencil size ones meant for pick up tools to usually the auto trade or anything. If crusty carb cleaner should loosen it up and pick up and blow out as necessary. BTW - as HT said carb kits don't come with much but gaskets so there for ability to do a good cleaning job. Other items sold separately or whole new if this engine can prove to you it's OK and you are willing a whole new should be ethanol compatible.
As said - I'm worried about this engine in general now and would and do for assorted engines cars or not as it hasn't had any run time to circulate oil now in YOU said a whole year - that's enough for an old engine,
T
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1989 toyota pickup 3.0 crank no start
Please Help - Knock sound & engine fail
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