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"Electronic" Ignition Coils and Contact Points
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Tham
User
Apr 5, 2006, 12:19 AM
Post #1 of 10
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"Electronic" Ignition Coils and Contact Points
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Those electronic reluctor-triggered distributors,
typically used in cars builit since the 90's, are normally
used with an "electronic" ignition coil, such as
those made by Bosch or Diamond of Japan. They
usually do not have an external ballast resistor.
I wonder if these type of coils can be used with older
contact-points distributors too ?
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Apr 5, 2006, 12:03 PM
Post #2 of 10
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Re: "Electronic" Ignition Coils and Contact Points
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I would use a coil meant for points with a balast resistor. I think but have no way of checking but electronic ignition probably uses much higher voltage.
FYI - Ford had an option called "PermaTune" in the 1960s so it's nothing new. T
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DanD
Veteran
/ Moderator
Apr 5, 2006, 1:28 PM
Post #3 of 10
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Re: "Electronic" Ignition Coils and Contact Points
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You could use a newer style of coil it would work fine but I’m not sure how much of a benefit it would be. The new style of electronic ignition system coils are meant to run on full system voltage and probably would produce a lot less secondary voltage if the primary voltage was reduced by a ballast resistor (Chrysler) or like GM and Ford a resistance wire built into the harness.
The purpose of the ballast resistor/wire on a point style ignition system is to protect the points: if the voltage in the primary was not reduced the points would fail quite quickly due to arcing; it’s not there to save/help the coil.
If you’re wanting to do this to get more punch from the secondary voltage, go to an after market performance ignition coil that was designed to run on 5 to 7 volts. They are much larger with more windings and have a larger case for oil or whatever they used to cool the windings.
The main purpose of electronic high energy ignition systems was to lengthen the spark duration because of the lean fuel mixture conditions not because they needed 80,000 volts to fire the plug but they just needed to keep it lit longer.
Maybe if you told us why you wanted to know, it would make things clearer as to where you’re going with this.
Just being nosey. LOL
Dan.
Canadian "EH"
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Tham
User
Apr 6, 2006, 7:19 AM
Post #4 of 10
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Re: "Electronic" Ignition Coils and Contact Points
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Thanks, Tom and Dan. (Author asked me to delete this post but for now I won't but there may be some mistakes so take all under advisement, Tom)
The reason I asked the above is because I am using a standard coil
(with ballast resistor) with a 'high energy" electronic ignition unit.
This unit is made from a Dick Smith Electronics (Australia) kit
and was designed by Silicon Chip magazine of Australia in their
issue of June 1998. It's quite a popular design actually, and it
appears many people are using it.
It's based on the Motorola MC3334 IC (as a coil current regulator)
and the MJH10012 power transistor, which have both been used
in General Motors' own stock high energy system in some of their
cars. It can be triggered by the contact points, magnetic reluctor
or Hall effect sensor. I'm using the points.
The ignition unit was designed to be used with a standard coil,
but I think it is overheating my coil due to the dwell extension
incorporated. Several times, I had to pull by the road with the
engine idling badly and erratically, almost sputtering. I don't think
it is due to vapour lock. The coil was not leaking oil, but running
extremely hot, way too hot to be touched for more than a second
or two. After cooling down and jumping the circuit to use back
normal points ignition, the car appeared to run fine again.
Thus I am guessing that my coil cannot handle the extended dwell,
and am thinking of switching to an "electronic" coil. However, if
the ignitor should fail anytime, I would have to jump back to points
ignition again, and it would be a good thing if the electronic coil
was compatible with points.
I have an old Bosch blue coil and I wonder if that can be used.
Checking on the net, it is supposed to be a high performance
coil with built-in internal resistance.
(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Jun 1, 2006, 1:14 PM)
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DanD
Veteran
/ Moderator
Apr 6, 2006, 10:01 AM
Post #5 of 10
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Re: "Electronic" Ignition Coils and Contact Points
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The current flow through that system must be pretty high to get the coil that hot.
You could maybe try one of these coils; their large case and cooling fins may do the trick.
The link below the picture takes you to their site and it looks like they have a tech support that may be helpful.
Dan.
http://www.accel-ignition.com/
Canadian "EH"
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Apr 6, 2006, 10:08 AM
Post #6 of 10
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Re: "Electronic" Ignition Coils and Contact Points
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Comment: Coils don't like heat. Points don't like high voltage and ballast resistors weren't even used when cars were all 6V. T
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Tham
User
Jun 1, 2006, 3:18 AM
Post #7 of 10
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Re: "Electronic" Ignition Coils and Contact Points
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(Sorry, I forgot to log in when posting the above.
Please delete the above post, Mr Greenleaf.
Thank you.)
I finally found out why the coil was overheating,
when I was replacing the points distributor with
an electronic reluctor-type one bought from the
salvage yard.
The positive wire, which is supposed to be
connected from the ignition key switch's "Run"
position to the ballast resistor before going to the
coil's positive terminal, had been connected direct
to that terminal itself instead.
When this was corrected, the coil ran very
much cooler, even with the electronic ignitor,
which is supposed to give out a higher current
to the coil.
Must have been modified that way by the previous
owner or wrongly assembled at the factory.
The shortness of that wire coming out from the
chassis would indicate that it was likely the latter.
Cars in Malaysia were very badly assembled in
those days. This is the case even now, as with the
indigenous Proton cars here.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 1, 2006, 3:42 PM
Post #8 of 10
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Re: "Electronic" Ignition Coils and Contact Points
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I didn't delete the post but added that it might not be right at the top. You need to tell me which post you want out or I won't just take one out. I won't mess with clean stuff but here to help you. I trust we all are.
Back to your inquiry about points vs electronic. I find it best to stick with what that car was made with unless you are building a race car.
There's nothing wrong with points. Some of the most powerful cars ever make used them. They just need to be looked at now and then or replaced. T
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Tham
User
Jun 1, 2006, 11:56 PM
Post #9 of 10
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Re: "Electronic" Ignition Coils and Contact Points
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Thanks, Mr Greenleaf.
I actually meant deleting the same last post
above (about me finding out the miswiring
of the coil), because I only realized later that
I was posting as a guest and had not logged in.
Apparently, logging in later and posting the
same message has self-deleted that earlier post,
because I do not see it here anymore.
Coming back to the topic, I believe the coil did not
overheat when I was using standard points
originally (without the Silicon Chip transistorized
kit), even though it had been wrongly wired at the
factory with the ballast resistor bypassed,
because normal points ignition gives out a
relatively low current.
When I used the points later to trigger the Silicon
Chip kit, which gives out a higher current output,
the coil started overheating.
(This post was edited by Tham on Jun 2, 2006, 12:03 AM)
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carjunky
Enthusiast
Jun 2, 2006, 7:42 AM
Post #10 of 10
(4405 views)
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Re: "Electronic" Ignition Coils and Contact Points
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Sorry Guys.... I deleted the "extra post" should ahve posted this sooner ;-)
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