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Fuel, Fire, Cranking, but No Ignition
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veganboyscout
New User
Mar 11, 2020, 7:29 PM
Post #1 of 9
(1907 views)
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Fuel, Fire, Cranking, but No Ignition
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1987 Nissan Stanza Wagon 4WD XE
Mitsubishi CA20(E) 4 Cyl 2.0L
fuel-injected
>200,000 miles
Starter cranks but engine does not ignite. It sounds and feels to me like it's getting flooded the more I try to crank it. Sometimes it does run if I'm lucky. The engine sounds really good when it does.
A fuel pressure gauge hooked up on the other side of the fuel filter from the pump and tank shows 37 psi after one pump cycle which is good. It drops to 36 quickly and then to 33 or so after a few minutes.
Spark plugs are one year old. I think the sparks plugs are firing because I pulled off a wire and it arcs to a ground nicely when I crank the starter.
An auto parts guy suspected the fuel pressure regulator. He said to check if there is any gasoline in the vacuum hose connected to it, but there is none. Part is $86-115.
I'm not sure about air. I assume it gets all the air it needs. I brushed off the air filter. It doesn't look too bad.
I not sure if a bad sensor could be causing this. I did check the coolant temperature sensor as a mechanic on Justanswer.com suggested. That seemed to check out ok. The male terminals on the sensor had 3.75 kOhms between them when cold, and the female connector had 5.04 volts DC supplied to it.
I would appreciate any help anyone can offer diagnosing this. I've been trying to get it running since I missed a first date with a girl when it wouldn't start in December. Thanks!
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Mar 11, 2020, 7:45 PM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Mar 11, 2020, 7:53 PM
Post #2 of 9
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Re: Fuel, Fire, Cranking, but No Ignition
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I deleted 2 of you pictures because they were way too large and made the thread too hard to read. Please reduce the size by at least half before reposting them.
All "crank, no start" conditions are approached in the same way. Every engine requires certain functions to be able to run. Some of these functions rely on specific components to work and some components are part of more than one function so it is important to see the whole picture to be able to conclude anything about what may have failed. Also, these functions can ONLY be tested during the failure. Any other time and they will simply test good because the problem isn't present at the moment.
If you approach this in any other way, you are merely guessing and that only serves to replace unnecessary parts and wastes money.
Every engine requires spark, fuel and compression to run. That's what we have to look for.
These are the basics that need to be tested and will give us the info required to isolate a cause.
1) Test for spark at the plug end of the wire using a spark tester. If none found, check for power supply on the + terminal of the coil with the key on.
2) Test for injector pulse using a small bulb called a noid light. If none found, check for power supply at one side of the injector with the key on.
3) Use a fuel pressure gauge to test for correct fuel pressure, also noticing if the pressure holds when key is shut off.
4) If all of these things check good, then you would need to do a complete compression test.
Once you have determined which of these functions has dropped out,
you will know which system is having the problem.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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veganboyscout
New User
Mar 11, 2020, 7:57 PM
Post #3 of 9
(1885 views)
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Re: Fuel, Fire, Cranking, but No Ignition
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Thank you, Hammer Time!
I actually nocticed that pinned post after I made my post. But I couldn't figure out how to delete my post. I will try the suggestions in that post. They are good ones that I hadn't come across yet on Youtube or anywhere yet. Thank for deleting my photos. Sorry about that.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Mar 11, 2020, 8:01 PM
Post #4 of 9
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Re: Fuel, Fire, Cranking, but No Ignition
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They are not merely suggestions. That is a systematic way to isolate the cause of the "no start".
One of those tests has to fail.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 12, 2020, 7:03 AM
Post #5 of 9
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Re: Fuel, Fire, Cranking, but No Ignition
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It's ancient as a vehicle you use goes so just adding some ideas to try:
It may have all that's needed, fuel, spark, compression and on time and still not fire. THAT can happen if flooded out plugs AND OR inside combustion chamber can short spark to ground without lighting it!
If plugs not showing wet for this so far try starting fluid you've ruled out anything to do with fuel if it reacts or maybe runs for a short while.
If plugs found wet (may look dry if not recent to flood it) they can self ground out the spark you get no reaction.
New isn't always fast if so nor heating up the ones you have to dry out unseen how they are grounding themselves out by wet or previously wet to soaked plugs.
It may not be the total answer as to why buy would allow you to continue the hunt for source problems that could cause that.
Careful to AYOR or pre made YouTube or like suggestions. IMO this is unique to what you know for a history already said did this in December so an issue lurks playing hide-n-seek on you.
It's just not standard anything to be using and counting on a machine/vehicle like this from 1987 possibly made in 1986 if you need transportation you also need your own ready spare parts, tools and the time.
In person current, professional help would be difficult or need lots of time IMO not a profitable thing for most to take on and PLEASE be realistic the techs live at work right now were NOT born yet when this was new the retro info and learning is actually confusing to most of few I personally know!
Tom
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 12, 2020, 7:28 AM
Post #6 of 9
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Re: Fuel, Fire, Cranking, but No Ignition
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I didn't bring up flooding because he already tested the CTS and fuel pressure regulator and most any other failure would only effect one or two cylinders.
What he has not checked yet is compression ie: timing belt
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 12, 2020, 8:06 AM
Post #7 of 9
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Re: Fuel, Fire, Cranking, but No Ignition
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OK: To me it showed spark available. On time or compression unknown. The self grounding is RARE but I got stuck with a few impossible when everything test right and NOTHING even putts, backfires - anything. Just the root basics of any fuel reacting in anything engine or other thing requiring spark and fuel if it was a BBQ grille.
It did this before was also some clue finding source issue/reason then fine for a while. The "new" plugs a year old can't be the tolerant quality if exact of OE or tolerant of fuel soaking. Porcelain (insulation) absorbs fuel if lousy quality self grounds was all the reason for the few the confused many experts now long ago too, Tom
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Ramntm
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Mar 25, 2020, 4:47 PM
Post #8 of 9
(1619 views)
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Re: Fuel, Fire, Cranking, but No Ignition
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He stated that it starts and runs at times, and when it does start, it runs good. That would rule out a timing belt being the problem. That leaves fuel or spark as my main suspects. If there is good spark when it won'r start, I would spray some carburetor cleaner into the throttle body while someone cranks it over and giving it some throttle. If that causes it to start, there is a fuel issue. another question to the car owner: Have you tried holding the accelerator pedal down when it won't start? I have seen plenty of "No start" problems which would actually start with a little bit of throttle. One was my own son's car. LOL
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