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kgtorino
Novice
Dec 4, 2006, 11:27 PM
Post #1 of 14
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No Start Condition
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Hello, New to this forum ...1987 Ford Country Squire. 302 5.0 Liter. Approx 200,000 mi. This is a new one for me...I'm used to relays not working...but one day all of a sudden....when cranking, no start . I thought dead battery because I heard what I thought was the solenoid " clattering " . Upon closer inspection, found the relays on the driver's fender-well just clattering with the key on. Also, there is vibrating/clattering coming from something on the passenger side too. I attempted to get codes from the main computer with a basic code scanner I have, but no luck there either. No Codes sent. By the way, the main computer was changed out about a year and a half ago by the previous owner. Any idea what would cause this? I was thinking since the computer was probably a re-built, maybe it needs to be changed again. I do hear the fuel pump intermittently cycling while the clattering is going on. Hope I've described the problem such that someone can make sence of it. The car ran great before this. Thank You for your time. Kevin.
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steve01832
Veteran
Dec 5, 2006, 1:46 AM
Post #2 of 14
(2819 views)
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Re: No Start Condition
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Start with checking the battery condition. If the battery isn't holding a charge, all electronic components will be affected. If the battery checks out fine, next turn the ignition switch to on. During bulb check all of the dash warning lights will be on. Check to make sure the "Check Engine" light is on also. If it isn't, replace the EEC Relay. If it is we will have to go further.
Steve
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kgtorino
Novice
Dec 5, 2006, 10:55 PM
Post #3 of 14
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Re: No Start Condition
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Thanks for the reply Steve. The battery is about 2 mos. old. ( the battery that was in it had died , and it was charging about 13.4 volts. ), so I put in an Ultima Yellow Top, and changed out the Alt. Everything was fine until about a week ago. The car does crank like crazy, and is charging 14.4. But I will check the battery voltage just to be sure, and check on the dash light situation as you suggested. I will post my results tomorrow. Thanks Again, Kevin.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 6, 2006, 12:05 AM
Post #4 of 14
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Re: No Start Condition
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If I read this right there is an intermittent fuel pump and clattering with relays??
The fuel pump relay should be the one with the green plug under the plastic hood on driver's side inner fender well. I think the EEC is the brown connector.
I've had a lot of those go bad on me to the point where I would carry a univeral spare in glovebox, T
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kgtorino
Novice
Dec 6, 2006, 6:38 PM
Post #5 of 14
(2796 views)
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Re: No Start Condition
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Steve, Battery is 12.37 at the posts. It seems all of the Instrument lights are lighting with key on. I specifically looked for the " Engine " light...and it did glow. I also cranked the engine to make sure they all came on, and they did. I have Alternator, low fuel, seat belts etc. So far, everything checks out.
Tom ...I know what you're saying...my Dad does that as well. He has a bag of them that he carries for this particular problem. Also, what I did was take out all the relays from an '86 sedan that I also have. They're not really inter-changeable...in that there's a slight difference in the configuration, so if you reverse two of them they will fit...and I believe they are all 4 prong. Well, that did nothing either.....same condition with the clattering and such. Thanks to both you guys for taking your time in helping me with this situation. Kevin.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 6, 2006, 7:15 PM
Post #6 of 14
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Re: No Start Condition
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The generic brand relays will fit any and are not indexed like the Ford ones. Ford stopped that trick in the early 90s and when my phone would ring with someone stuck I told them to just switch out the A/C breaker with first the fuel pump and then the EEC if that didn't work and a lot of times it did!!
I still own three late 80s 5.0s and love them, T
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kgtorino
Novice
Dec 6, 2006, 9:56 PM
Post #7 of 14
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Re: No Start Condition
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Oh, so one of those relays is A/C Breaker ? I thought that was in the fuse box. On the driver's side fender-well, there are 2 together, and one if front of that set of two which I was pretty sure is the fuel pump relay. And the horn relay I believe is below the fuel pump relay, by itself. Does that sound right ? I'm not too sure of myself when it comes to engine electrical ...lol. I will just for fun buy some extra relays at the parts store...if for nothing else to have on hand. I will get fuel pump relay and EEC relay. ( hope they have them in stock ) . Thanks, Kevin. ( By the way ...love the kitty pic ....we have 4 lol ).
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 6, 2006, 10:48 PM
Post #8 of 14
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Re: No Start Condition
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You should only need one universal relay for testing and if you feel better get an OE one if it works, T
Kitty says "Hi."
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steve01832
Veteran
Dec 7, 2006, 2:42 AM
Post #9 of 14
(2787 views)
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Re: No Start Condition
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The check engine light came on at bulb check. EEC relay is fine. Now we need to hook up a fuel pressure guage, spark tester, and injector test lights and crank the engine to see what is missing. Don't waste time or money on relays at this point, let's see if the problem is spark, fuel, or both.
Steve
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Guest
Anonymous Poster
Dec 7, 2006, 10:30 PM
Post #10 of 14
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Re: No Start Condition
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Steve...that sounds like a good plan ....I can see if it has spark by pulling a wire....but as far as injector test lights and fuel pressure gauge, I'm at a loss there...will have to get those items. I'm assuming any parts store should have them. I wouldn't mind purchasing them as I'll probably need them again in the future, and they'll pay for themselves by not having to hire a mechanic. Thanks as always. Kevin.
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kgtorino
Novice
Dec 10, 2006, 11:07 PM
Post #11 of 14
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Re: No Start Condition
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Ok, Steve and Tom ....I did a " poor-man's " Spark and Fuel test by pulling a wire, putting a new spark plug in the boot, and had a friend crank....no spark what-so-ever. Then, I went to see if there was fuel, so I removed the cap on the fuel rail port, and I did get a good shot of fuel out of it....high enough to reach the underside of the hood. That's about how far I got with it at this point. I don't know if testing this way will tell you anything or not....if not, i will certainly go out and buy the necessary equipment. Please let me know if you can. Thank You, Kevin.
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steve01832
Veteran
Dec 11, 2006, 3:48 AM
Post #12 of 14
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Re: No Start Condition
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When you checked for spark with the plug did you run a jumper wire from the side electrode of the plug to a good ground? The body of the plug has to be grounded for the spark to jump the gap. When you check for spark you need to also check for injector pulse. This will determine whether it is solely an ignition problem or if the computer doesn't see a tach signal. If the computer doesn't see a tach signal, you won't have spark or injector pulse. Go to Auto Zone and buy a spark tester and a fuel injector test light. This way there won't be a misdiagnosis. Modules can get expensive and getting it right the first time can save a lot of $$. At Auto Zone, also, you can get a fuel pressure guage for about $20. I really like to have the actual pressure in psi before I rule anything out.
Steve
(This post was edited by steve01832 on Dec 11, 2006, 3:52 AM)
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kgtorino
Novice
Dec 11, 2006, 11:23 PM
Post #13 of 14
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Re: No Start Condition
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Hey Steve....yes, I (thought I had) it grounded by holding the threaded part of the spark plug against the exhaust manifold...but...I agree, that may be inconclusive. I will get these instruments the next chance I get, and will post results then. Thank you for your continued attention, I appreciate it. Kevin.
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kgtorino
Novice
Jan 14, 2007, 6:33 PM
Post #14 of 14
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Re: No Start Condition
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Hey Guys.. was on vacation ...Hope all had a good Holiday Season. Anyway, since I last posted my Dad got impatient, decided it was the computer, and we did change it out. ( I did buy the spark tester and fuel injector tester lights (Noid )Lights i think they're called ). Anyway, the car does run ! However...i noticed some hesitations when cruising around 45-50 mph. Kind of jerky-miss type feeling. I then decided to do new wires, cap rotor, (they were needed anyway ) , and adjusted the base timing back to 10° BTDC . It was off about 4° . It has improved greatly, but is still there a little...and seems to get better when it's completely hot. I don't remember this before it stopped running, and don't know where it came from ...but I'm guessing it's electrical in nature....maybe the coil ? Or, another wire issue...but it would seem when it gets hot it would be worse...but it gets better. Anyway, that's the latest...if anyone knows from experience, or would care to venture a guess i would appreciate it very much. Thank You for your time, Kevin.
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