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SOS Mechanics can't figure out what's wrong!
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moonlightstar16
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Mar 22, 2017, 8:40 PM
Post #1 of 13
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SOS Mechanics can't figure out what's wrong!
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2009 Nissan Rogue AWD 2.5 L 4-cylinder 135,000 miles, CVT transmission.
I've been to four mechanics and two Nissan service centers and no one can tell me what is going on. My car has this problem when there is snow on the road it won't accelerate correctly from 20-60 mph. When I push on the gas pedal, I feel a quick jolt that lasts only a couple of secs. It's like the engine is bucking, restarting itself. It feels like someone hit the brakes really quick and it occurs many times back to back. It reminds me of when you're running and you trip but catch yourself. It is at its worst when its light powdery snow that you can see blowing across the road. On packed snow, it rarely has a problem. This has been ongoing every winter season for about two years now. It drives perfectly fine in other seasons. I have no idea what it could be and apparently no one else does either! There are no codes and no lights turn on when I feel the jolt. This morning it was the light dusty, powdery snow and my car would not accelerate beyond 20 mph with me flooring it. It keep jolting and the RMP would not budge. I pulled over to let it calm down and in park the car sounded like it was purring. The RPM kept going from 1.5 to .5 to 1.5 to .5 so I turned off the car and restarted it after a few minutes it drove fine. This is the first time it has ever not accelerated beyond 20 mph. I drove it to the mechanic and they checked everything from head to toe and told me they couldn't find anything wrong with it.
What I've been told: it's not my transmission, tires, wheel bearings, or drive shaft.
One mechanic told me it was probably the activated brake line system engaging and applying the brakes when the wheels don't spin at the same speed.
I also have a low quality video of the jolting if anyone wants to see what's going on.
Has anyone heard of this problem before? I'm not sure what else I could do or where to bring it. Please help!!!
(This post was edited by moonlightstar16 on Mar 22, 2017, 8:51 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 23, 2017, 1:56 AM
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Re: SOS Mechanics can't figure out what's wrong!
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You have AWD - learn what it's supposed to do in adverse surface (slippery) conditions. It's probably normal trying to cover changing road conditions confusing it totally and you should know more about driving in those conditions and when not to at all. It very well may have a switch to shut off some form of traction control and back on when really needed or wanted,
T
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 23, 2017, 4:38 AM
Post #3 of 13
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Re: SOS Mechanics can't figure out what's wrong!
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Yep, probably just traction control kicking in.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 23, 2017, 5:47 AM
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I agree. Sounds like slip control operation. When the problem is happening does the slip indicator flash?
TCS
System Description
- Traction Control System is a function that electronically controls engine torque, brake fluid pressure and CVT shift position to ensure the optimum slippage ratio at drive wheels by computing wheel speed signals from 4 wheel sensors. When ABS actuator and electric unit (control unit) detects a spin at drive wheels (rear wheels), it compares wheel speed signals from all 4 wheels. At this time, LH and RH rear brake fluid pressure are controlled, while fuel being cut to engine and throttle valve being closed to reduce engine torque by the control unit. Further more, throttle position is continuously controlled to ensure the optimum engine torque at all times.
- During TCS operation, it informs driver of system operation by flashing SLIP indicator lamp.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Mar 23, 2017, 5:50 AM)
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Tom Greenleaf
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Mar 23, 2017, 5:52 AM
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Re: SOS Mechanics can't figure out what's wrong!
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Would have been nice if 4 different techs/places including 2 Nissan shops could just say that's normal as nothing was found.
Readers: Please note, as a tech or not this action in particular is almost impossible to duplicate the exact surface conditions - snow, ice, mud, rains and more. Nothing shows wrong and no info read by codes nor anything obvious - bad tires or unmatched were said rules out.
These traction systems have been around for decades and do NOT behave the same way for each. I would hope it's explained in each vehicle's operator's manual how it is enabled and when it would do what. It's a boring read but go thru it to find out. If missing get the exact correct duplicate the vehicle should have,
T
(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Mar 23, 2017, 5:53 AM)
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moonlightstar16
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Mar 23, 2017, 11:34 AM
Post #6 of 13
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Re: SOS Mechanics can't figure out what's wrong!
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Thanks for the comments everyone!
So my AWD has an auto switch or a manual switch, I've driven in both and tried turning on traction control and have experienced the problem regardless of what I do. It's not my tires slipping from traction because I do not get a slippery light getting turned on. When my car does slip from heavy snow, the car does have the slippery light illuminated when I lose traction. Also, I'm not sure why AWD driving would not let me accelerate past 20 mph even when I was doing a slow accelerate and no heavy snow on the roads just windy gusts of powdered snow. The only reason why I don't think it's a AWD or activated brake line system problem is because I've had the car for 5 years and its never done this in winter seasons before. The problem just began the last two winters. It's been driving me crazy.
I've read in other forums that someone had the same problem as me and could not figure out what was wrong until their fuel pump broke. It had something to do with the wiring to the fuel pump system for them. I've never heard of this before and not sure how to get it diagnosed. (no links to other places please - not allowed)
(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Mar 23, 2017, 12:13 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
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Mar 23, 2017, 12:27 PM
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Re: SOS Mechanics can't figure out what's wrong!
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No links please and was removed. Showed "didn't exist anyway.
I just can't compete with FOUR places fining nothing with the vehicle in front of them.
Please no offence and I've always lived in snow, ice country with all the extremes. Your comment that you are relying on the vehicle to tell you it's slippery takes the cake. IF you are so poor at driving in adverse conditions and can't figure out if a wheel is spinning wheels or not for sure without the car telling you with some fool light don't go out in that.
Good grief - the famous "Black Ice" situations can go years and not do that and or be under the conditions you see. How much snow or ice is almost irrelevant it only takes paper thin amounts sometimes can feel like you are airborne - zero traction and no vehicle is going to magically fix that and confuse itself AWD, or plain drive set ups. I personally plow snow - any conditions and have since about 1969 assorted machines/vehicles.
Just once a 20 ton sander truck couldn't even move (public machine) stuck setting still even! A freaking kid (would be me) told him to sand while backing up then have the traction sand you just put down! Duh - that worked.
There may really be something wrong but said I can't argue or compete that 4 places can't find a thing to help you. Perhaps if you are convinced this can't be normal seek yet another.
There's just no way to know if this is real, the vehicle, the situation(s) just unusually bad or what!
T
(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Mar 23, 2017, 12:35 PM)
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moonlightstar16
Novice
Mar 23, 2017, 2:48 PM
Post #8 of 13
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Re: SOS Mechanics can't figure out what's wrong!
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Sorry, I didn't realize that about links, thanks for removing and thanks for the driving advice!
I honestly don't think it's my driving because of course when I told everyone about this problem they thought I was crazy and being sensitive. It wasn't until I told them to drive it (my family and friends) or drive with me that they have experienced it, too. I just don't understand how it would be specifically my driving if the car has never done this years (3 years) before in the winters. I should clarify that I'm not relying on my vehicle lights going on to tell me how slippery it is. I can feel how the car is driving in the snow and usually gauge how I should drive from there. I was just stating that the bucking I get seems to be independent of my car slipping. The slippery light does not go on when the car bucks which is why it makes me think that it's not traction control or my car slipping. If my car were to slip or lose traction the warning light does work and goes on but I don't experience the bucking in that situation.
I should also clarify that mechanics haven't been able to diagnose properly because they haven't been able to "reproduce" the experience. They haven't been able to drive it on the just fallen snow with gusts of wind or the light, powdery snow unfortunately. However, I left my car at the mechanic tonight because we are suppose to get a little snowfall tonight into tomorrow am. He's going to drive it first thing in the am to try to reproduce it. I'm hoping that I can post to this thread tomorrow with some answers, fingers crossed!
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 24, 2017, 12:59 AM
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Links allowed for your own pics or videos with sounds. Site is free to you needs its own ads to run it - all regulars volunteer, that's all.
OK - What to do? When you have a problem that just will not duplicate itself clearly for another it doesn't much matter what the problem is - car, anything. One way is what you did is leave the car/vehicle with a tech to use and commute with if need be and high hopes it can even be called a problem at all?
Yikes - the types of slippery vary by the foot driving along. Type of snow/ice especially the temp of the ground under it and how treated with sand and or salts on top is not evenly the same.
Pet peeve is allowing a vehicle to make any decisions on how to deal with a condition of adverse traction. How on earth can it possibly know foot by foot down a road what it's dealing with? What grip does each tire have on that surface is critical and only as good as the tire to the surface. Let a vehicle try to decide what to do doesn't make sense to me especially if it is trying to override what driver is trying to do witnessing things live second by second.
Your vehicle may "default" to lower speeds it can only know how fast wheels are turning not your actual speed over the surface - understand me? You could be in a 4 wheel skid at 60 MPH it thinks it's sitting still so driver has to know better. This is why I just wish any vehicle with traction and or braking controls had a total OFF setting and let a driver decide up to pulling over and not drive at all if that's what it takes.
If there are no codes saying something is wrong with the system you have and it's doing this I believe you. It's also possible to own and drive the same vehicle for ages and conditions have never been like that for years plus exact tire wear matters totally even when they look good and worse, some brand new suk totally.
It's entirely possible if you absolutely MUST drive in adverse conditions and there certainly are people who have to that the whole vehicle isn't the right one for you personally with your conditions?
If that's the issue and this only happens every 5 to 10 years I don't have a solution for that except wait those time out.
At a loss if this can't be duplicated and someone in person can't find it or suggest what it could be. For now I think a combo of conditions, tire to surface real traction plus confused AWD may be working against you?
Refresh - If this happens again and still no good answers for those who have tried to find something take a real hard look at brand and wear amount of you tires which must match of this vehicle both wear amount and tire pressure or it's just all worse,
T
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moonlightstar16
Novice
Mar 24, 2017, 2:29 PM
Post #10 of 13
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So I just got my car back... Good news is that the mechanic was able to duplicate the problem I had since it snowed, yay! The car had bucked/jolted for a couple of secs and then he was able to slowly accelerate through the snow with an occasional buck here and there. Bad news is that they can't figure out what seems to be wrong. They think it may be a transmission problem and recommended I take it to the Nissan service center... except, I just did that last month.. Nissan did a full transmission diagnostics on the car which cost me a couple of hundred dollars, just for them to tell me nothing is wrong with the transmission.  So I'm back to square one, think I will be calling around to other shops for other opinions at this point.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 24, 2017, 7:58 PM
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Eeek - this area can really stink. At least someone else also experienced it happen. Now IMO the real work might begin which is contacting Nissan which a dealer should be doing when or if a problem isn't making itself clear enough going up to car maker's own specific people who should be informed to help the trade when elusive problems with proper check all check out happen for real.
The snag with that is then actually getting people who are not getting paid well or much to solve the issue when everything else fails who knows or has access to the real # of the same complaints and what was the solution.
This part is real hard on you. One would think dealer would be interested in solving an elusive problem and just do all this for you but takes up unpaid time to chase some of this down above the ordinary technical support a dealer should have.
Now lost as age of the car and miles are not a motivation for them to jump all over this so easily FOR you when it's easier to put you off or wear you down.
If the dealer isn't assertively helping you there should be contact information in the car's owner's manual and think I'd be contacting them till you get to someone who is taking you seriously.
Seems since you've tried so much in person with the car it's time to check that route and see if you can find some real higher end help there usually to support the dealers and techs with newer stuff to make alterations or upgrades to things near always takes a number of relentless complaints if in fact a design or part is the problem.
Try it and see if that helps at all. Have your VIN ready and see if that leads to inside help or more of the same unsolved attempts by you they should have done for you but aren't motivated to do that. Keep track of all papers, when and where who has already found what and see if that helps,
Tom
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moonlightstar16
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Mar 25, 2017, 12:30 PM
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Thanks Tom! I really hate dealing with Nissan USA. Every time I've dealt with them they've always given me the you need to bring it into a service center spiel (around $100 minimum just to have my car looked at!) and if they find nothing they say the car is out of warranty anyway. I've done this quite a few times for this problem.
BUT..... I think I have finally figured it out!!  I almost lost hope after my mechanic called yesterday until I did some more googling and found other people who had the same problem replaced their air filters. Apparently, air filters not seated properly or defective ones allows snow, dirt, debris, etc... to pass through and hit the MAF sensor which sent a current spike to the ECU which made it think it sucked in a huge amount of air which would cause the engine to compensate and by giving less fuel and then end up with a misfire but no code because it was compensating for the "amount of air" which was actually a snow flake. This sounded a lot like my problem!
I decided to try it and IT WORKED!!!! WHOOHOOOO!!! When I took out my old air filter, it turns out it had a faulty seal (seals were worn and destroyed) which caused the snowflakes to enter whenever it snowed! My car drove like a beast last night in the snow and no bucking of the engine yet! Luckily, it snowed enough last night and the road conditions would have definitely caused the engine bucking but it didn't after replacement! So, I'm confident it's fixed from what I've seen last night, only time and more snow will tell but for now it seems to be fixed. It's only taken me two years to figure out what's going on with this problem. I will update if the problem comes back, hopefully it doesn't! Now, my concern is what damage I could have possibly done to my engine from not having a proper air filter. Any ideas on prevention methods I could do to help, Tom?
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 25, 2017, 12:49 PM
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YOU found a valid reason! Good for you. Now the job is to find a filter that is best, once Wix or Napa Gold for me or pay more for OE air filters. Know exactly how to install so they do NOT squish wrong and allow unfiltered air. Many are a pest of assorted vehicles.
IDK - I personally vacuum cleaner out debris, leaves and such out of the unfiltered area on some as it can fill way too much in some. If so be very careful not to allow any crap to pass an air filter can only be trouble.
Hey - I hear you with the calling, live email type chat or whatever for help. It's not just Nissan it's all of them - stinks.
OMG - I can just imagine saying a snow flake caused this and lots of luck having a picture of it! Not funny and hope that ends it for you,
Tom
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