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DanD
Veteran
/ Moderator
Apr 30, 2008, 4:49 PM
Post #1 of 8
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Ok guy’s I’m stuck on this one.
2004
VW
Jetta TDI
1.9Lt
5 speed manual transmission.
150K miles showing
What’s happening is; you leave in first gear with light, moderate or heavy acceleration; it’s smooth as glass, all the way through first gear.
Shift into second and accelerate, you begin to feel, what I thought was a driveline vibration?
Third gear it gets little worse and by the time you’re in forth, the whole car is vibrating, as long as you’re accelerating.
Fifth gear well I’m not sure because by the time you’re in fifth and trying to accelerate; you’re doing well over 80mph. Lots of power being produced by the engine.
Cruising at speed or holding a speed, regardless of what speed or gear, no vibration.
Let off on the throttle and the shake is gone instantly; push the clutch in or put it into neutral with clutch out and rev the engine, no vibration regardless of your speed.
Try torqueing the engine while stopped (brake stand); all engine and transmission mounts are holding drive-train true and no vibration.
There is no transmission whine or noise; shifting is smooth; no slippage of the clutch.
Replaced both axles shafts with rebuilt units; no change in the vibration, what so ever.
What do you guy’s think?
Dan.
Canadian "EH"
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dmac0923
Enthusiast
Apr 30, 2008, 5:37 PM
Post #2 of 8
(9416 views)
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Re: VW Vibration?
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my first guess would have been engine/trans mounts but you stated they checked out ok.
have you checked the tranny/bell housing bolts? my father brought his car into a shop to get the transmission replaced. about 200 miles later the car would shake rattle and roll. he crawled under the car and found the bell housing only had 2 bolts left holding up the trans and those were HAND TIGHT!
a bad bearing in the trans perhaps?
__________________________________________________
2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee
2002 Ford Ranger
2004 Toyota Corolla
1969 Ford Mustang Mach 1
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Double J
Veteran
/ Moderator
May 1, 2008, 3:58 AM
Post #3 of 8
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Re: VW Vibration?
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GEEZ Dan...
Been thinking about this one here....WOW..
Don't know if I have much to offer....
Sounds like you covered everything...
I feel like the karate kid telling MR Miagi (sp) about Karate/martial arts...
I haven't worked on a VW in years (Thank God)
Couple things came to mind..probably in left field but I thought i"d offer them anyway.
Do these axles have vibration dampers on them?..Axles taken out original or replacements?
I bought several for Honda's at Advance and they sometimes don't come with them...originals have em.When I get them at Honda ,they have them.
Had several Honda's with driveline vibrations and found the rubber on the dampers partially cracked or missing.Especially that longer axle.
Also was thinking ,again ,probably in left field,but has it had any work done where drivetrain may have become misaligned?Clutch work,engine work?
Thinking ,again not sure on V'dubs,but you know how drivetrains/mounts can be mounted where it affects axle lengths.
Are the axle lengths specs correct?you know how you measure them once axle is installed.
Also one more thing,I have heard that these have bearing problems...
Ok...still thinking here..Just wanted to throw that at ya...
I know...BUt I'm used to being in left field...somehow it feels right...You know..old dog, new tricks...LOL..
Jim
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
May 1, 2008, 6:15 AM
Post #4 of 8
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Re: VW Vibration?
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Reminds me of what they called "driveshaft whip" but you said the shafts were replaced with the same symptoms?? It would be near impossible for old and new to have the identical flaw. I dunno??
T
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DanD
Veteran
/ Moderator
May 1, 2008, 10:09 AM
Post #5 of 8
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Re: VW Vibration?
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dmac
I’m beginning to think trans as well but it doesn’t make sense that first gear is smooth all the way through its power band? Looking at the power flow chart for this transmission; first, second & third all run the same shafts? It's not a great flow chart but that's what it looks like anyway?
Jim
There were no dampers on the original or the replacement shafts.
There was no work done to this car’s drive train before this suddenly showed up.
I serviced this car two weeks ago; replace rear brake pads for a safety inspection and had it down the highway; taking it for an emissions test, at a buddy’s shop. I would have felt this vibration then; if it were there; there’s no missing it.
Dam; I think some people would pay to ride in this thing; just to get their cookies massaged. LOL
(No the brakes are not dragging; that was my first thought.)
There is no adjustment for axle lengths, all mounts seem to be set in a fixed position.
By undoing the hub axle nut and sliding the axle in and out along the slip joint’s travel. I can see that the axle is positioned approximately in the middle of the slip joints travel; this is with the car’s weight on its wheels.
The replacement axles were identical, plus I’ve removed them and the originals were reinstalled. The axles were done one at a time with road test in between, not even the slightest difference on the way in or out.
The customer seems quite knowledgeable towards this vehicle and said that he only noticed the vibration, after towing a relatively light (1000 lbs) utility trailer; which he has used many times in the past.
Tom
That’s exactly what I’m thinking that I wasted a tech’s day swapping axles around and didn’t accomplish anything. Well I guess that’s not a 100% true; we know it’s not the axle shafts. LOL
Thanks for the replies; if you can think of anything else, please don’t hesitate to throw it at me; I’ve always liked playing left field.
Dan.
Canadian "EH"
(This post was edited by DanD on May 1, 2008, 10:12 AM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
May 1, 2008, 10:51 AM
Post #6 of 8
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Re: VW Vibration?
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Ok: Hair is gone! This has happened with a couple - transmissions themselves, not driveshafts. One was such a terlet (Archie Bunker) that it was never to be investigated and the other a freaking B&S (?) trans to a garden tractor no less. The first splined shaft (input) has it's load to escape it's position up and down by bearing, the "pilot", then another at trans case and another at the far end. One I fixed years ago was the garden tractor but that one would fall out of gear by the time I got it. It was smooth about it too! Similar basics there though and that one the case holding the bronze bearing was worn and in the circumstance I could fabricate just what was worn with JB weld type junk to support the bearing.
More hair loss: Don't first and reverse share a bearing or support somewhere? That one is good then. The load of pulling that trailer was just a straw for the camel's back as even 1,000 lbs is half the weight of the car or about.
All things suspect would require a teardown of that trans with high hopes of seeing something. I'll suggest the pilot or the other bearings are somehow smooth but out of spec for "up and down movement" and not so much "end lash" movement.
Ok: It's just 8am here (clock off at board) and I have no hair and a headache
Dan - if this is screwing you up then I can only imagine how rare this must be!
Tom (used the diag to refresh what goes on in there!)
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DanD
Veteran
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May 27, 2008, 8:02 AM
Post #7 of 8
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Re: VW Vibration?
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Finally I have an update on this VW and its vibration; I think? LOL
A couple of days after my attempt to find this vibration; the check engine light came on and the engine started to smoke during acceleration. The smoke & the vibration start to appear at about the same time.
He had the codes read and it was something to do with the turbo? Kind of made sense because the turbo doesn’t start winding up until you’re out of first gear and that is when the vibration starts; during accelerating from second on through the other gears. Always smooth with lots of power in first.
The customer took the thing into the dealer; they had it for better then a week. Trying all kinds of things but did not come up with an answer for the vibration. I don’t know what the customer was charged but he didn’t sound pleased. I guess they said that all they did was needed anyway; sorry for your luck; we don’t know what’s causing the vibration.
Now the car is sitting at a specialty VW shop here in town and they had the customer’s permission to do some tear-down, looking for mechanical issues that might set up this turbo code, smoke & vibration.
What they found and I don’t know the whole story yet but I guess the camshaft has a couple of lobes worn off with barely any lift left.
Their theory is that the engine because of the worn cam wasn’t/isn’t making enough vacuum to keep the turbo or the controls for the turbo engaged? The vibration was more or less a very rapid misfire under load?
Driving the car, I would have never even guested that it was a misfire; it seemed to pull normally to me? But then again that was before the check engine light and the black exhaust smoke?
According to my customer’s research on this problem; he found that his isn’t the only TDI that has developed this problem. VW knows about the issue and there cure was a specially formulated oil that had to be used in this engine. I guess from a certain production date to another, were the only engines that had this soft ground cam that required this oil, to mask the problem.
Here’s the kicker; VW will repair this if and only if the customer can prove that only this specific oil was ever used in this engine. Talk about loop holes or what?
Dan.
Canadian "EH"
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
May 27, 2008, 9:00 AM
Post #8 of 8
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Re: VW Vibration?
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Great followup Dan. Goes to show how elusive problems can be so difficult to nail down. VW knowing anything about this without notifying it's customers as best it can is plain not nice. Hope others can benefit from the findings here and save the hair loss,
Tom
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