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Pontiac 6000LE not circulating
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lkeen4314
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Feb 28, 2009, 2:19 PM
Post #1 of 10
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Pontiac 6000LE not circulating
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Hello,
We own a 1991 Pontiac 6000LE we bought for our daughter. She went on a -45 below windchill day for a joy ride and the car overheated on her. She just kept on driving and it just quit on her, antifreeze blowing, steam rolling.
My husband put in a new radiator, new waterpump, new headgaskets, new thermostat, and it still will not circulate. The car heats up over 210 and the fan will not work unless hooked up direct to battery. Please help me!!!
Laura
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 28, 2009, 2:41 PM
Post #2 of 10
(3230 views)
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Re: Pontiac 6000LE not circulating
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Arggh! Whatever the initial problem was is now almost certainly much larger with driving it so hot!
Any clue if this had adequate antifreeze in it before this? If it froze solid or close it might have damaged the water pump and or radiator wouldn't circulate slush or was frozen so would overheat.
Lack of antifreeze when cold is ok if it was set to somewhere around +10F (don't have the exact cross line) where the mix would contract when frozen and not expand but still cause problems if colder than that.
Windchills mean almost nothing except the speed rating of chilling effect. The acutal air temp is what counts and that only to a car and the antifreeze protection level.
Some things to do for now:
* Make sure coolant is truly full at radiator not just recovery tank. Can take tricks to know that and a few warm ups + cool down but don't let it overheat.
* Pressure test cooling system. Hope not but if it doesn't hold stop repairs till you find where it leaks.
* Fan for radiator may be fine. If sensor is not in liquid it could be severly delayed. Temp gauge and switch for fan are sensing at different spots so knowing coolant is properly full is critcal. Top of this section has suggestions on how to purge air out of cooling systems - not always easy....
T
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lkeen4314
User
Feb 28, 2009, 2:54 PM
Post #3 of 10
(3222 views)
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Re: Pontiac 6000LE not circulating
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Unsure what the level of antifreeze was before she drove it over 7 miles overheating. Originally it leaked out the radiator so we put in a new one. Then it was still overheating and the temp gauge just stayed stuck past 260. We got a new selinoid or wire? and the gauge started working. It was still overheating so hubby thought blown headgasket or worse cracked block. He took the heads off and did not see anything sticking out saying "yep its the head gaskets". So he went ahead and replaced them. Then after it was all back together it still would not work properly. Hubby doesnt think the motors cracked because there is no coolant in the engine or in the oil?? or none is coming out the tailpipe?? No coolant is leaking anywhere at this point.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 28, 2009, 3:10 PM
Post #4 of 10
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Re: Pontiac 6000LE not circulating
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I can see you are the go between with hubby and the car sites.
You wouldn't normally check to see if a head gasket is a problem by taking it apart first but rather do a series of tests and try to ascertain the extent of the trouble before tearing everything apart.
What engine is in the car? Need to know that at some point.
http://autoforums.carjunky.com/...ling_Systems_P36410/
That's the link on getting air out of a cooling system. It's such a common problem for DIYers it's hard to explain. It's a pill for those in the trade on many vehicles now. Full isn't full until you have really checked and that means a touch and feel (carefully please) what hoses get warm and when, and that can be telling of the flow. Water pumps can fail. It's rare that they completely quit circulating.
Right now you could check heater hoses for temp with a short engine run and NOT overheat it! Heater should blow warmer air as engine warms up. If nothing it's full of air or not pumping - my bet is it's full of air - who really knows?
Heaters will quit blowing heat when coolant boils - a good clue that's it's way too hot to run engine if that happens while driving and watching temps.
Thermostat could not be opening, be in backwards if changed, wrong one, or a NG new one. Hose to top of radiator should stay cold till it reaches the thermostat's temp rating - usually about 195F. If upper hose to radiator stays cool there either isn't enough coolant or truly isn't any flow - BACK - only thermostat or pump could really isn't pumping at all. Eventually heat will heat close to engine at thermostat but if really no flow would stay cool at radiator end till it was boiling then all bets are off.
Keep testing that coolant is full first. Again - it's not that easy to tell all the time and sometimes you have to purge or fill thru a high hose first. Much was discussed in the link above,
T
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lkeen4314
User
Feb 28, 2009, 5:23 PM
Post #5 of 10
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Re: Pontiac 6000LE not circulating
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Well I'm not sure the engine size but I know it is a 3.1.. Husband doesn't know I'm looking for help online he is to stubborn to ask. He finally read the previous messages and he states he knows he purged all the air out. At this point we don't know what else to do.
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Loren Champlain Sr
Veteran
/ Moderator
Feb 28, 2009, 6:01 PM
Post #6 of 10
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Re: Pontiac 6000LE not circulating
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Pardon my jumping in, here. Did hubby have the heads pressure tested for cracks? Have the car tested for a leaky head gasket, again. Any hydrocarbons in the cooling system will tell you. Heads will crack right by a valve seat and be impossible to see with the naked eye. Hopefully, I'm wrong.
Loren
SW Washington
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lkeen4314
User
Feb 28, 2009, 6:07 PM
Post #7 of 10
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Re: Pontiac 6000LE not circulating
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No he did not, he just looked and saw nothing noticable. He felt while he had them off he should take them in to be looked at. But, due to money and daughter wanting the car he didn't.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 28, 2009, 6:07 PM
Post #8 of 10
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Re: Pontiac 6000LE not circulating
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Ok: It's still overheating with a new radiator and coolant thought full but if it doesn't circulate you really couldn't know that.
Head gaskets were replace and no mention of the heads being sent out to machine work or even inspection for hairline flaws or warpage.
Were torque specs followed with ripping the engine apart? Were head bolts replaced - many can't be reused as they are turn to torque and won't do it twice!
3.1 is a likely engine and easy waterpump to swap or just get a gasket and check it again.
Please - tell me how anyone thinks the coolant is NOT circulating? Even with cracks and a host of troubles it would circulate if pump turned, t-stat opened and radiator wasn't plugged shut.
Again - If heater will work at all the pump is doing something if the coolant is truly and properly filled. It can take several cycles and tricks to know that.
So just answer this for now - DOES THE HEATER PROGRESSIVELY BLOW WARMER AIR FROM A COOL/COLD START TO A NORMAL TEMP READING?
Just that will tell me a lot,
T
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lkeen4314
User
Feb 28, 2009, 6:17 PM
Post #9 of 10
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Re: Pontiac 6000LE not circulating
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Yes the heater does blow warmer air from start to normal temp.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 28, 2009, 6:35 PM
Post #10 of 10
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Re: Pontiac 6000LE not circulating
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GREAT - That means it's full enough of coolant and water pump is working. Now - I'm starting over with why it could overheat with a new radiator, full enough coolant, fans working and that leaves me with minimal air in system which if it holds pressure normally will self purge with a few more cycles now OR the thermostat just isn't opening at all. If cold out it would only need a small amount to pass thru to keep engine cool. Hoses to and from radiator and any bypass hose used must be know attached properly, not kinked.
If need be with the thermostat take it out and put it in water on stove with a thermometer and watch it open. Don't leave it out of the car as it needs it for proper flow when closed or fully open but only as open as a thermostat can open not the entire hole it goes in.
Here's a test for a head gasket type problem which could explain the problem:
Allow engine to warm up to a normal temp. Shut down and when possible remove the pressure cap. Check coolant level again and replace cap. Feel the upper hose to radiator for pressure noting none present just by feel. Now start engine as it is warm there isn't much more expansion going to happen so hose shouldn't show pressure for quite a while and temp shouldn't spike up. If hose pressures up quickly and temp is passing a normal mark there's a leak of combustion gasses getting in which will act like air, will overheat.
That could happen thru flaws in metal or gasket of head, intake or hopefully not block.
It may take some temp to open a hairline flaw unseen.
There's another way to tell if combustion gasses are getting into cooling system and it's by testing the vapor over the liquid in the recovery tank for exhaust type gasses. Test strips equipment is available to test for that - none should be present,
T
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