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fastsvo
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Sep 19, 2022, 2:14 PM
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1991 Mustang GT with R12
Currently diagnosing a potential leak in the system. Looking at my arsenal of R12, I came across a can labeled "Cold Shot Refrigerant Leak Detector". Any issues using this stuff? I am assuming it's R12 with a UV dye?
Thanks!
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Hammer Time
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Sep 19, 2022, 2:49 PM
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Re: Will this work?
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Yep, that's exactly what it is. It's manufactured by "Gunk" if you remember their products.
I'm assuming that is a 12oz can and not just a 4oz oil shot.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Sep 19, 2022, 2:51 PM)
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fastsvo
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Sep 19, 2022, 6:29 PM
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Re: Will this work?
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actually its a 14oz can. I think this is the old red dye and not the UV style?
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Hammer Time
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Sep 19, 2022, 6:39 PM
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Re: Will this work?
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Yeah, that's refrigerant.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Sep 20, 2022, 9:31 AM
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You can still get a can tap for those. Leaks are/were the spring lock connectors of hoses it's so old could be anywhere or thing.
Yes you can keep it R-12 it would retrofit and be OK if no more choices practical.
Good luck but don't expect tapping that can to save anything in it if not all used!
Tom
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fastsvo
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Sep 21, 2022, 12:29 PM
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Re: Will this work?
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I figured since it's low on freon (how low I do not know yet), where it will still cycle the clutch, but it's blowing hot air. A 14oz can should get me closer to see what it will do next.
I have been told about those spring lock connectors and was advised to not touch them if they are not leaking (I originally wanted to upgrade them to the green o-rings for good measure).
Obviously there are some unknowns at this time. What I do know, the high side valve core is leaking (I can hear it) when removing the cap and the low side too, but it's not audible to the ear (just to the leak detector).
(This post was edited by fastsvo on Sep 21, 2022, 12:31 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
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Sep 21, 2022, 2:28 PM
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I think this is an Oriface Tube set up, meaning a silver can (accumulator) is on passenger's side underhood. Holds from zero about 40 oz, R-12. Your 14 oz can will make it work some or well depends on if it zero pressure or just low.
Price of R-12 coming down but regulated to sell it cans or otherwise,
If you can see pressure (rental gauges free at Autozone and other places, 100% deposit for safe return. If zero pressure there's a blow out - forget seal color at age they still work or don't I own lots and older than this.
None of these like real cold on Winter if so in your situation the shaft seal on compressors leak with no evidence like oily mess the clue.
This will convert to 134a no problem so don't freak. It just is slower to cool and BTU less but OK.
Back: If you know some pressure in it now should be about the PSI of the temperature in F. If lower it's empty - find the leak, fix it those spring locks are a pest need cheap tool for those.
In short - yes you can get this going it holds a lot can be off on charge quite a bit and it will work fine if converting to 134a say so ca walk you thru that too.
If no compressor kicking on it's probably a wild leak easy to find do get new OE grade caps there are Shrader valves (like tires) in there just loosen quick, hear hiss and just snug them up. Spit test is fine just like a tire valve stem. Fords used different thread size high side then if tight you can forget that for later will explain as needed,
Tom
Edit in: If empty U can side tap 152a duster will still work and can find the leak. TMK 152a is totally compatible with R-12 AYOR IDK if system is already in trouble?
(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Sep 21, 2022, 2:32 PM)
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fastsvo
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Sep 21, 2022, 2:58 PM
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Yes, it is an orfice tube setup.
I have plenty of R12 cans and only one of them is that "Cold Shot" 14oz can. I have borrowed a set of 134a gauges and will try to use them (need adapters).
12 years ago, the system was recharged by a shop with R12 and 4oz of mineral oil was added (prior to that it had freeze 12) and held until COVID hit, where I barely drove the car. It currently has 62k miles.
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Hammer Time
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Sep 21, 2022, 3:30 PM
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Those R12 cans are getting scarce. I've still got a few of them. Worth about $40 bucks apiece now.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Sep 21, 2022, 6:29 PM
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! Freeze 12 isn't R-12. If in there you need to start over from a vacuum that holds!
As per old chart this holds 40oz of R-12 - BTW.
You get just the hose ends for R-12/R-22 gauges not whole new ones work fine can run the small cans thru them.
SEAL THOSE CAPS, FIX THE SHARADERS!
Tom
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fastsvo
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Sep 23, 2022, 12:12 PM
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Could you possibly post some links of hose ends you think would work with R12 ->R134 gauge set? I thought I just needed the brass adapters.
So the car is not a bad as originally thought. I drove it yesterday and at idle I engaged the AC (MAX AC) and slightly raised the rpm and it started to blow slightly cold air, still no where close to be even considered cold. So it has more Freon in it than I thought.
Pulled it in and started to poke around with a HF leak detector (my Tif just broke) and I got some weird results to the point, where I don't trust it (the Tif would not go off on these areas). Spraying soapy water did not net any results either. At this point, it maybe just the schrader valves are leaking and just needs a recharge.
Some videos of me playing around with the HF tool:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/G3GBq1JdR2Bz8jGt6
https://photos.app.goo.gl/bMaM6Nvtwrs2zudq5
https://photos.app.goo.gl/N95s3As4RS4WVjHp7
All this time, I was thinking the front seal was leaking on the 6P148a, but with 62k miles, maybe that's not the culprit here. Below is the underside of the compressor and I believe all the dirt is being slung by a leaking power steering unit/line.
Thanks!
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Hammer Time
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Sep 23, 2022, 1:25 PM
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Those leak detectors are very difficult to use accurately. Just about anything will set them off like brakleen or fuel, even your breath. I see no oil stans at all at those connections so I really doubt there is any leak there.
We don't allow product or advertising links here but the fittings you need would be regular retrofit fittings but installing them would be very deceiving for anyone else that works on the car as they will think it has been retrofitted.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Sep 23, 2022, 1:25 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
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Sep 23, 2022, 2:44 PM
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You can use 134a gauges if you get the retrofit, fittings JUST TAKE THOSE OFF WHEN DONE. Another for can tap is hardware store stuff - a union then another retrofit fitting or if a hose for R-12, also R-22 is around cut it but use TWO fuel injection line clamps make a sealed grab not the spring like ones.
Put a smear of silicone grease - goodness even some Chapstick on threads of temporary 134a fittings so they come off and save them, the day will come.
MARK IT UNDER HOOD THAT IT'S R-12! Use a silver Sharpie or black if accumulator is aluminum color. Close to a time accumulators were black painted OE some had specs on them some a sticker on radiator support or close by.
Remember that freeze-12 wasn't R-12 IDK some kind of propane or something??
Read cans - look for chemical names the duster might say also 152-a - have one in sight that does.
If you can evac out any of that freeze 12 do so it's not compatible with the real stuff may have harmed the mineral oil??
Shraders: 2 sizes one same as for tires the other larger BTW. Some retrofit adaptors didn't have a Shrader it pushed on the R-12 one, some didn't look!
Said you can just quick loosen and tighten most will seal again without losing refrigerant.
Then - if charged or part full you need a ton of special tools to replace a Shrader without loss of refrigerant but it can be done,
Tom
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fastsvo
Novice
Sep 23, 2022, 3:04 PM
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I don't know why, I was under the impression that the adapter fittings would go on the gauge set side and my original R12 fittings would remain? That's why I was curious about those adapter hoses, perhaps that is a better setup?
At this time, the car does not have Freeze-12, just the good stuff - R12.
I have looked into those valve core removal tools that don't loose the refrigerant. Natively, they sell it for the low side (1/4") but the high side (3/16") requires an adapter. Should I bother with this or just get a normal valve core removal tool? Snug up the high side first and see what happens?
From what I am gathering there are two approaches here:
1. Replace both schrader valves and charge it up with that 14oz can of R12 and see what happens. Add more if needed. Drive it for the next year and again see what happens. Maybe I will get lucky, maybe not.
2. Replace everything! Accumulator, lines, o-rings, and compressor if needed, run a vacuum and charge it accordingly.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Sep 23, 2022, 6:57 PM
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Refresh that Fords used a smaller high side and GMs used yet one in between I forget the exact size for a while was cheaper to just leave tne fittings on converted just ends of a good set of gauges - happen to still have a Robinaire set (Snap-On) plus a fitting for 30lb bottles was also a Shrader idea was you could leave cheapo tank knob open that sealed it.
Look at the hose ends either one has a push button thing for Shraders or not on purpose yet fit backwards pull hair out because they don't work.
Mentioned was the green "O" rings tolerant of 134a and PAG oils all are tolerant now - forget the green color. Old flex hoses for the car your call - good ones are good might last decades NOS ones would leak a little thru rubber if not barrier type hose but old or OE ones might not now at all??
Once you could over fill a large capacity R-12 car quite a bit came thru new overfilled expected boosts 40oz + systems or lots more could handle it with lower operating pressures than 134a normally.
Just other news on this. I never saw new gauges for 134a adapt to R-12 just the other way also used for refrigerator/freezers, buildings with roof top units (R-22 mostly) none are the same thing don't mix them all up.
Intentions were to be final if retrofitted no switching back so fittings came with thread lock you can defeat some vehicles you couldn't leave adaptors on they'd hit hood or something!
At least this set up called a CCOT set up (clutch cycling, orifice tube) vs with expansion valves and bulbs sensed temps better or harder depending each situation when new.
This car? You may have a thermostatic fan clutch or IDK if electric this old the clutches worked fine the flex fans even better no longer used a Ford thing some broke off a blade so quit making those.
This stuff can all work well for you for a loooong time don't be too much of a rush to toss everything the new crap suks will leak faster than some of the old stuff!
Keep swapping this to 134a an option for the future might skip on to that 152a from this is said to be about 85% the swap to 134a is maybe 80% this car new was stronger IMO could afford that loss cabin area is smaller has similar BTU power of much larger cars/SUVs and things out there,
Tom
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