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tnora
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Mar 17, 2023, 1:46 PM
Post #1 of 16
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Have a 1991 mits Montero 105178 miles. Clutch burned up. This was new complete clutch replacement 2 years ago. Clutch kit, engine crankshaft seal kit, clutch master cylinder, resurfaced flywheel, and new transfer case and transmission gear oil. It had 570 hi way and City miles on it. Towed it to the shop. I'm wondering what should I expect them to find that caused this premature failure? Any feedback would be helpful for me. I'm hoping they will do a complete repair with no cost to me.
(This post was edited by tnora on Mar 17, 2023, 2:58 PM)
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Hammer Time
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Mar 17, 2023, 2:52 PM
Post #2 of 16
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Re: Montero Clutch
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This depends on what kind of failure it had.
If it had a hydraulic failure, it's very unlikely it could have been prevented.
If the clutch disc is simply worn out, that is usually a driver caused issue. Some people are very easy on a clutch and some just never learned the right way to drive a stick and slip the clutch way too much.
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tnora
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Mar 17, 2023, 3:04 PM
Post #3 of 16
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Re: Montero Clutch
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Thanks for your feedback. This might be something the shop brings up when they tear into it. I know the clutch fluid reservoir was full. There was no loss of clutch fluid I saw. The clutch disc had less than 600 miles on it.
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Hammer Time
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Mar 17, 2023, 3:08 PM
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Re: Montero Clutch
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600 miles in 2 years?
That would make the hydraulic system highly suspect. Hydraulics don't like sitting around like that.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Mar 17, 2023, 7:18 PM
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Re: Montero Clutch
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tnora: Can you explain how this only went under 600 miles?
Was it in storage and who drove it?
A clutch can be ruined in no time/miles or last indefinitely. IDK tell us the miles if outside it was always rusted like brake rotors you see thru wheels friction metals like that go bad and self-destruct are vented to outside air. You can't just look at them to see that - same car brakes would be screwed up as I just said IDK wheel type at least front brakes are disc type look right at them when driven would shake hysterically a low use problem for outdoor cars even ones not sold new,
Tom
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tnora
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Mar 18, 2023, 2:01 PM
Post #6 of 16
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Re: Montero Clutch
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This vehicle isn't in storage. It always has 10-20 miles put on it every couple of months. The majority of the miles are from May to Nov. It's gone from a primary family vehicle over the years, to a fourth vehicle with light duty use around a family mountain cabin association. The clutch slippage problem always occurred while going up hi-way grades. The factory clutch failed at 104,000+ miles while going up grades. This rebuild failed while going up grades. I remember now that after the first couple of months of getting the rebuild, I noticed the slippage. Traveling up from foothill elevation to mountain elevation at 50-55mph, the rpm needle would swing up to 4000 and then settle back down to 2500 with no change in mph. Would drive fine when at my destination, which was level roads. The repair shop is at level road valley elevation, so they were never able to test drive it up grades after the rebuild. This last breakdown happened while driving up the hi-way grade, the same hi-way grade it has been traveling on since i drove it off the dealer's lot in 1991. I hope the repair shop can look beyond the clutch plate and find out what is causing it to slip on the flywheel.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Mar 18, 2023, 3:02 PM
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Re: Montero Clutch
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OK. Clutches wear out from either being way out of adjustment as in no free-play. Feel that with a finger on pedal at least 1/2" IMO is just room to not "self-ride the clutch" is like resting foot on one a disastrous habit.
There isn't near the friction material on a clutch as brakes both friction items.
Like brakes in many ways the metal surface if rusty would wear out the friction lining fast and may or may not give a clue or go without notice it's not able to "STALL" an engine which a good one should.
When a load (hills, hill starts, or stopped using clutch to not roll backwards will wreck them real fast = driver error/mistake, untrained driver was brought up.
That "Free-Play" is there because when in use (notice this on another vehicle) you lose some free play under load NORMALLY give it room you don't notice it's slowly slipping at first.
A 4th car for a perhaps some retreat place you and others now if so driving this thing so little might be fine if garaged AND folks know to shift quick not make long smooth shifts the other bad habit.
IDK if there's any way to check for wear or rust pits without it coming out? IDK if you ask then a decision just do a new disc or what from what is found.
Most clutches (hydraulic linkage type) are not adjustable but I suppose could be wrong right away with all new stuff. If a pushrod from master to pedal isn't right with free-play right away it's never going to be.
Same concepts I have had a bad master the centering hole wasn't drilled new deep enough later to find a whole bunch were made not caught so a mass defect.
The pressure to hold it locked is the pressure place has springs you feel that with foot retracting it. If that somehow was all wrong, a spring broke or wrong spec it's a parts issue on top.
Trouble for you is the time passed since done. It clearly isn't working properly usually worn out but shouldn't need the full job of 2 years ago can't really know until it out again.
BUMMER! If not defective parts or rust will show thin and was hot from slipping I think I still stress that the FREE-PLAY is the game anyone can check if when none it's going to fail soon,
Tom
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Hammer Time
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Mar 18, 2023, 3:11 PM
Post #8 of 16
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Re: Montero Clutch
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If everything you are saying is fact then you have to have been put together with incorrect parts if the clutch slips right out the gate with your foot totally off.
There is no way anything could have worn out that fast. The problem has to be with the repair.
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tnora
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Mar 18, 2023, 4:10 PM
Post #9 of 16
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Re: Montero Clutch
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Everything I've mentioned happened, so hopefully you're correct and it's a bad part or parts. I'll find out later this week and see if that's what the shop says. It would be nice if they could test drive it on an uphill grade or create a resistance load on the tires to replicate a grade to test the clutch through all the gears.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Mar 18, 2023, 4:12 PM
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Re: Montero Clutch
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Could be? It's hard for me/us (?) to know the conditions and use it got of course.
Just a note + side info. STD shift cars became rare where I am but are out there. If or when asked to check a used car for someone would put it in gear like 2 of 4 with brakes on hard. Now make it fight the friction just quick enough should if allowed stall most engines.
I would say "pass" for the test but can't say how long time/miles are left.
Some plain never replace them others if car kept expect them back never really learned it. In fairness it's hard to be nice to a clutch in uphill traffic jams and not roll back some cars (owned one) had a foot parking brake is a real pest like need 3 feet vs center pull parking brakes. Buying used and knowing your usual is key most opt for auto trans over it,
Tom
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Hammer Time
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Mar 18, 2023, 4:13 PM
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Re: Montero Clutch
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Can you take off in 3rd gear without stalling the engine?
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tnora
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Mar 19, 2023, 11:16 AM
Post #12 of 16
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Re: Montero Clutch
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I can try taking off in 3rd when it gets out of the shop. I never tried that in the past. Should a 1991 Montero be able to take off in 3rd? How does this test determine the condition of the clutch? Thanks.
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Hammer Time
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Mar 19, 2023, 11:26 AM
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Re: Montero Clutch
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That is a test to determine if the clutch is actually bad. Taking off in 3rd gear should definitely stall the engine before the car gets rolling. If it doesn't stall, the clutch is slipping severely.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Mar 19, 2023, 12:03 PM
Post #14 of 16
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Re: Montero Clutch
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? It's at the shop so what do they say as of today or last work day?
The idea is FOOT off pedal in a gear the clutch wins over the engine for this example. If it just burns it's bad.
Just thought of a wild maybe I never have had is if so much oil could get on friction parts it would slip. So far a never - problems yes not slipping.
Back - any hydraulic failure totally should be like you can't hit pedal to release clutch.
Last is some layouts if a motor/trans mount is so bad it lifts up so high it releases itself that's more mechanical clutch linkage far more than hydraulic linkages, Tom
* Mechanical: Cables, rods, pivots using engine and body. Not this thing?
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tnora
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Mar 19, 2023, 7:19 PM
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Re: Montero Clutch
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Shop hasn’t looked at my Montero yet. They said they are backlogged and will get to my vehicle this Tuesday or Wednesday.
Also, there were no signs of fluid leaks. The clutch reservoir was full and there were no signs of exterior leaks. About 100 miles ago, I changed the engine oil, filter and examined other components underneath the vehicle and didn’t notice any problems. But from the information I’ve learned here on this post, there could be an interior leak that could affect the friction of the clutch plate. I’ll pass on what the shop discovers.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Mar 19, 2023, 10:46 PM
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OK. Waiting for what is found. If you can ask for pictures if while inspecting it also gets fixed what it WAS. You said you'll "pass" on what they say? Is that no to what is suggested or you'll accept it?
This is unique. Super low use vs no use or lots of use it's justified somehow.
Curious that 1st post mentioned a crank seal kit is engine oil most seep normally if pouring out would run out of engine oil. Dry friction as raw basics of how these work should sling off lube of that oil and still grab. Unsure of how effective any tricks to sole a leak there would last time wise never mind miles??
Awaiting your report on what is found this HAS to leave evidence of why.
Whatever it is the value of this is not to let it happen again for all concerned. This could help another is a publicly viewable thread but bet a one-of -a-kind for the use this vehicle has had. Good luck, Tom
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