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tusseltussel
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May 11, 2010, 10:23 AM
Post #1 of 27
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1953 f350 215 carb.
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ok i got one for y'all I have a ford f350 1953 with a 215 6 cyl.
it has the original holley1904 carb on it now but a few things wrong. 1. i cannot find a number on it to identify it and get the right kit for it...2. someone kept tightening up the float cover to stop it from leaking and warped the gasket mateing surfaces real bad and caused a crack on the underside of the float bowl. so if i do find a kit for it im not sure a gasket will seal the way its warped so bad. i could prolly jb weld the crack but im thinking i might put a diffrnt carb on it. what carbs would work??? i know you can get an aftermarket plate to put a 2 bbl on it but what carb would that be or what 1bbl could i replace the 1904 with if i cannot find one??? any ideas or suggestions???
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Tom Greenleaf
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May 11, 2010, 12:27 PM
Post #2 of 27
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Re: 1953 f350 215 carb.
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IMO not much reason for putting on a 2bbl. Manifold is for 1bbl so what can it do differently or better? Not sure anyway but did find they made a lot of them and were used in Falcons at least thru 1960 and Rancheros which are really Falcons of the year. It apparently was common to even the smaller C.I.D. 144 engine.
Here's a pic that may be wrong of what I found out there. Some ads thru Amazon had some parts, kits for sale now long expired but new ads may be out there,
Pic showed..........
T
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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May 11, 2010, 12:47 PM
Post #3 of 27
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Re: 1953 f350 215 carb.
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If it's a Holley, the numbers are usually stamped vertically in the metering block which is that section behind the bowl.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
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May 11, 2010, 2:13 PM
Post #5 of 27
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Re: 1953 f350 215 carb.
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I have to suggest finding "vintage Ford truck" clubs for more parts availability on this. I plead IDK how many applications this carb would fit. Going to 2bbl probably will cause a major headache to find an adaptor plate so you can even bolt it down. It may fit Ford Tractors from the era also and more stuff available that way. Just not sure,
T
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tusseltussel
User
May 11, 2010, 5:29 PM
Post #7 of 27
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Re: 1953 f350 215 carb.
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http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TRD-2044/?rtype=10
here is one says it fits a holley 2bbl wonder if it could fit a motorcraft 2150 wouldn't that be somthin
i just measured the 2150 and the bolt pattern is 5 1/8 x 3 1/2 the same as the adapter....... im gonna poke around the ford forums and see what they think
thanks again
(This post was edited by tusseltussel on May 11, 2010, 5:34 PM)
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nickwarner
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May 12, 2010, 6:06 AM
Post #8 of 27
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Re: 1953 f350 215 carb.
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The parts guys at Summit have pretty good tech data on what their stuff will work with, since the people calling them don't really keep anything stock. Might give them that part number and ask if it would work for what you want it to do. They don't charge anything to tell you.
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tusseltussel
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May 13, 2010, 1:53 PM
Post #9 of 27
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Re: 1953 f350 215 carb.
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well im gonna give it a try next week i ordered the part after talking to a few people and they all seemed to have the same thoughts, either go for it it should work or you may need to re-port the carb as the smaller 215 engine may not suck the fuel as well as the bigger 351. i also heard that people would change the 300 inline 6 over to the motorcraft but thats still a long way from the 215, they all seemed to think it would run either way. so im gonna go for it, it's still cheaper than the rebuild kit for the 1bbl holley that may or may not work and i already have the carb. a lot of guys at the ford forums seem to consider the holley 1904 garbage. my brother told me long ago that if you start off with junk your gonna end up with junk and the condition the holley is in, it's junk. will post my results when its done in case anyone els is wondering if it can be done or how well it works
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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May 14, 2010, 5:56 AM
Post #10 of 27
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Re: 1953 f350 215 carb.
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tusseltussel: Bit late to respond to this - sorry. The replacement 2V for a 1V alone doesn't mean all that much. Carburetion is just clever way to atomize fuel to proper %/ratio as demands call for. It will (should) adjust to the airflow (CFM = cubic feet per minute) that passes thru it.
The most monstrous V8s at idle aren't using more than the CFM that passes thru it until WOT (wide open throttle) then the displacement of the engine plays in.
Carbs are not "pushing" fuel into the engine but rather drawing it in via vacuum. It's a mind warp of engineering but the amount of vacuum (without tricks of boosting air) is totally dependent on atmospheric pressure. Near exactly 14.7 PSI at sea level.
The throttle plate(s) dictate via your foot how many CFMs are allowed to pass by.
The mixture needs be right or it would pass on rich or lean mixture - neither are optimal.
Carbs are three basics: Idle mix, intermediate and WOT. The transition from one to another without waste is an art.
IMO - if needed adjusting the float level has more to do with proper mixtures than the "jetting" hole size,
T
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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May 14, 2010, 7:08 AM
Post #12 of 27
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Re: 1953 f350 215 carb.
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I did see "re-porting" as altering jets which are just a measured size hole!
Again and it's a bizarre thought of how carbs work. They don't pull in fuel but rather atmosphere's pressure is pushing AND density of air counts so folks living in very high altitudes did make alterations as the atmospheric pressure was lower to near impossible at super high altitudes to run of get diddle out of a carbed engine.
There's a "Venturi" effect unseen going on. Analogy: If you put you hand out a car window at some speed the "lee" side of your hand is less than atmospheric pressure! I'm from the carburetor "geekdom" vintage so have enough clue to at least be dangerous.
The hand out the window pushing your hand back is NOT. Rather, it's the vacuum on the back side pulling it! A simple but mind blowing concept of physics.
It's really the air pressure we live in on top of fuel in the bowl of the carb that pushes the fuel in at prescribed amounts. A fuel pump is only maintaining the level of fuel in that bowl much like the back of a toilet - really!
If the replacement 2V has the basic adjustments it probably will be fairly easy to get it to run properly at maximum efficiency for the intake manifold it sits on. The harder part will be any alterations for linkages as needed like getting the full range of gas pedal linkage to match wide open throttle plate to foot to the floor without putting force on the carb itself.
Getting used to the choke used if changing from manual to automatic will require plenty of thought and adjustments too. That can be tweaked over time as once warm choke is just dead weight,
T
PS: Side note: This is straining the "spell check" program I use! Appently the puter generation who made that program didn't include that "Venturi" effect?
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re-tired
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May 14, 2010, 8:09 AM
Post #13 of 27
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Re: 1953 f350 215 carb.
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There's a "Venturi" effect unseen going on. Analogy: If you put you hand out a car window at some speed the "lee" side of your hand is less than atmospheric pressure! I'm from the carburetor "geekdom" vintage so have enough clue to at least be dangerous.
Thus the invention of fords famous (infamous ?) varible venturi carb. And the 21st century dinosaur the Predator carb.
Ah the good ol smog days where a tech could make 8 hrs with a couple of carbs
LIFE'S SHORT GO FISH
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tusseltussel
User
May 14, 2010, 8:42 AM
Post #14 of 27
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Re: 1953 f350 215 carb.
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ok i think im picking up what your putting down........ so when you open up the throttle you creat a pressure drop making the pressure in the bowl greater than the pressure at the jet in the venturi causing the fuel to be pushed out at a greater rate??? thats what im getting from your post. I thought it was the air passing through the venturi that sucked the fuel out as it passed, almost vacuuming it out but the whole pressure drop thing makes more sense. i can tell you have probably forgotten more than i know, i appreciate you explaining this to me, you can rest easy tonight knowing you helped someone today........ unless i'm still to dense to figure out what you are saying and that wasn't what you meant. in that case at least you tried to help
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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May 14, 2010, 9:52 AM
Post #15 of 27
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Re: 1953 f350 215 carb.
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R-T -- Don't scare people with that VV (variable venturi) concept! It caused nightmares and "tennis" elbow from seeing how far you could throw them!
tusselltussell: I think the replacement will work is basically it. The troubles will be in fitting it in place, out of harm's way, hookups for linkage, fuel supply, fitting an air cleaner with a filter - the small stuff could be most of the effort. The adaptor plate will be critical for it to bolt on properly and seal properly. If held up too high clearance to the hood can be an issue but for 1953 I'll bet not much problem there. I think there was enough room under the hood to close it on a mechanic while still standing under there!
The carb and its "Venturi effect" will respond to the flow of air. The engine cranking, either just the starter or while idling is like a black hole of vacuum waiting to be filled. The carb is just controlling how much air flow it gets. Technically speaking it's just "Flaming Magic" that this slight vacuum created for the Venturi effect is capable of making less pressure (vacuum) to draw whatever (fuel in this case) up to the lower pressure. I should default to saying "just trust it will do its thing."
Back: The level of fuel in the bowl will 'suck up' more fuel the higher the level as it would take less of a pressure differential to do so.
The real key to the success will be a pre-made adaptor plate with plain 'bolt it on' without wild Mickey Mousing everything for it to fit and work.
Note: The whole idea is get the ratio of fuel to air correct at now guessing about 14+/- parts air to 1 part fuel and allowing it to become a vapor (no liquid as that's flooding) and stay about there thru the assorted requests for power, speed, desired.
I'd concentrate more on it fitting in place than the fine tuning it to make the closest possible perfect mixtures which fortunately in that vintage many things were adjustable vs the last carbs sold assertively designed so you couldn't tweak them out. Too damn many late ones were locked in wrong when new - more effort was put into tamper proofing adjustments than making them serviceable,
T
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tusseltussel
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May 14, 2010, 11:56 AM
Post #16 of 27
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Re: 1953 f350 215 carb.
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the adapter plate will be here Tuesday. getting it alll together shouldn't be much of a problem the adapter bolts right up to the manifold 2 5/8 hole spacing so we are ok up to that point the measurments for the base of the carb match the adapter hole spaceing and all. the carb will be facing forward so the linkage still pulls in the right direction its just a matter of getting it over to the other side of the carb to do its pulling which i have a few ideas and as for WOT position i should be able to do some bending here and there to get that taken care of, a couple springs and it should be good to go........ nothin is ever that easy though, might be one of those build it as ya go things. i am gonna take your advice and just trust it will do its thing will let you know how it turns out next week
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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May 14, 2010, 2:24 PM
Post #17 of 27
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Re: 1953 f350 215 carb.
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Sounds like you have a good grip on this. One heads up is to get familiar with how (most were or all) throttle linkage and how to adjust it. You want a helper or somehow peg gas pedal to floor, hold choke plate so you can see or feel that carb is wide open but that your foot pressure falls just short or the stress is on the pivot of the throttle plate(s) and will break!
Trust me - your foot is stronger than a carb! What's real nasty is if broken parts if that happens get drawn along and into combustion chamber - a total nightmare or not kidding - game over for that engine!
Surely you are aware that things don't belong dropped down a throttle body of any kind carb or injected. Have seen whole nice engine turned to junk over the wing nut that holds old type air cleaner housings that folks would put back on with cleaner housing off so they wouldn't loose it while working and down it goes!
More: As needed good hardware stores carry assorted "speed nuts" and things to hold rods in place and great gadgets for anything you may come across for attaching.
Once running we can go thru any adjusting if much of any to get it to run just right in that application,
T
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tusseltussel
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May 16, 2010, 5:12 AM
Post #18 of 27
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Re: 1953 f350 215 carb.
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the adapter came yesterday... it almost works....... i had to oval out one of the holes a tiny bit to get it on to the manifold and on the back side of the adapter it dips in like a 1/4 inch and the carb hangs over with about a 16th of an inch gap where it will leak so i gotta figure out a way to seal it up and its good to go, well other than the linkage but i gotta get it on and sealed first... i don't think any rtv or silicone would hold on. I am tossin around the idea of making a plate to fit the carb with an open center and than bolting that down. i think it would be pretty easy to make and if i could get ahold of a piece of 1/4" or even 1/16" thick aluminum to make it out of it would be rigid enuff to seal properly i may go in to town today to try and find something for it, might just have to weight until mondaythough. i have to get two longer studs for the manifold so they stick up far enuff through the adapter and i will need to get some red lock tight to put on there so it doesn't come loose and get sucked in. it looks promising though. as for the linkage it will need to move over adout 8 inches to get to the other side of the carb, i was thinking just a simple steal rod bent into a u shape attached to the firewall at the bottom of the u than at the top ends one hooked to the arm that comes out from the pedal and the other with a cable to go up to the carb, a spring from the firewall to the carb and its done. i think the flathead v8 used a similar linkage to get over to the center of the engine just i need to go the other direction with mine i'm gonna look up some parts and see if i could get one and somehow reverse it, or just make my own but at least i have a working plan now will post some pictures of it when i get a chance so you can see how it was done
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re-tired
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May 16, 2010, 8:59 AM
Post #19 of 27
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Re: 1953 f350 215 carb.
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Thank you Tom , I thought it was just me. Carbs became something you got by eating pasta. A quadra-jet was the latest fighter. Venturi got me a name of a famous Blvd . And when i put in emulsion tube all I got was a blinking cursor.
LIFE'S SHORT GO FISH
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tusseltussel
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May 18, 2010, 5:04 PM
Post #20 of 27
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Re: 1953 f350 215 carb.
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got it together and it started right up and idled great don't want to run it too long though there is no radiator right now the main thing is it started and sounded great. would post a pic of it but not sure how
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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May 18, 2010, 5:19 PM
Post #21 of 27
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Re: 1953 f350 215 carb.
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You have to upload it to a photo hosting site like /gforum.cgi?url=http://www.photobucket.com and then post the image link here and the picture will appear.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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joemag7
Novice
May 18, 2010, 5:58 PM
Post #22 of 27
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Re: 1953 f350 215 carb.
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Deleted and banned
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on May 18, 2010, 6:04 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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May 19, 2010, 2:14 AM
Post #23 of 27
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Re: 1953 f350 215 carb.
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tusselltussel: Sorry about the "jerk" who's gone now.
Things sound great. True - don't run it long without cooling system operational and final adjustments already seem like they'll be fairly easy if it's idling well now - awesome! Not sure what thermostat was the suggestion for this but I suggest NOT going for too cold. 180F at least should be fine for the vintage. It probably would tolerate the lower 160 but fuel will be more efficient with more than that.
Not sure where you stand with the engine overall. Is tune up in good order? Final adjustment will want points and timing to be real close to specs.
A vacuum gauge can be real useful for making accurate guesses for settings. You can tell a lot about things with actual manifold vacuum.
If not in your collection I like if I only had one is the hand pump vacuum tool with gauge and fittings to put it in line to manifold vacuum for reading or use it to check vacuum diaphragms as it's a pump too.
They look like this..........
Price of such a critter ranges a bit. On line $35ish to perhaps $50ish in regular auto stores
on up by brand.
Excellent for lots of things especially in this vintage,
T
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tusseltussel
User
May 19, 2010, 6:55 AM
Post #24 of 27
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Re: 1953 f350 215 carb.
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i will not run it long, my goal was actually just to get it to run for now and make sure it wasn't knocking and rattleing too bad, i have a lot of body work to do and just wanted to be sure the engine was sound. this is the first time it has run in 5 years and i am happy with it so next up is removing the cab the front end is already off and been straightened and primed just gotta take care of the cab, frame and brakes and brake/fuel lines than back together. shouldn't be too bad at least i don't have to rebuild the engine. might be awhile before i can properly tune the engine. it has new points cap rotor plugs and wires after sitting outside for 5 years not running i figured i would just start off with good parts. they call for a 180 thermostat in this engine and i wouldn't go any lower a 160 would be open too much and free flowing antifreeze not giving it a chance too cool off in the radiator and overheat. as it stands now the engine starts and sounds good so i can move on to the bodywork and when i get it back together i can worry about getting everything exactly perfect thanks will keep you updated on my progress
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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May 19, 2010, 7:35 AM
Post #25 of 27
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Re: 1953 f350 215 carb.
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OK: I get the idea of where this project stands now. The deal with thermostats is about any engine want to have one. 160 or 180 are both wide open as they get to their set temps so flow would be the same. A problem comes from NO thermostat as the flow is too great for the engine's water pump to circulate and even out the temp uniformly inside it. Engine needs some temp to vaporize the fuel.
No doubt this was an open cooling system. You could benefit from a closed system cap (keep the pressure down - even 7lbs) and just add a universal recovery tank which can just be neatly tied away but will mean radiator will then always be 100% full of coolant which increases it's area to exchange heat and better yet keeps air out. Don't exceed a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and it should be perfect. If showing this later the recovery tank could if just wire tied away could then just be removed for show.
I know you still have plenty to do. Please do post pics when you can of this one.
See now if I can find the basic body style now of just any one out there already posted...........
No telling what body you have for the back or the color so a black and white photo
will do for now,
T
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