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2008 Sedona- Do I really need a brand new ECM?
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kj26569
New User
Mar 23, 2016, 9:36 PM
Post #1 of 8
(2205 views)
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2008 Sedona- Do I really need a brand new ECM?
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I have a 2008 Kia Sedona (3.8 V6) with the following trouble codes: P0018, P0300, P0302, P0304
I have replaced the coils and plugs, a torn air intake hose, and a camshaft position sensor for the side of the engine with even numbered cylinders.
It still runs rough has a blinking CEL, and gives the same codes.
I found that unplugging any of the myriad of sensors under the hood will keep the ECM in open loop so that it runs like a dream, but as soon as they are plugged back it, the trouble comes back. I used that fact to my advantage to drive the car to the mechanic a few miles away.
After running diagnostics, he says the ECM is bad based on the fact that the number 2 and number 4 fuel injectors stop pulsing after a couple minutes of idling. He says they are not even getting a signal from the ECM. He does not have the equipment necessary to flash a new ECM and recommends going to the dealership for a new one and getting it flashed there.
After contacting the dealership, I have found a new ECM is around $1000-$1500 depending on my VIN (didn't have that handy since the car is not with me). I asked about a used one. He says that won't work because once an ECM is flashed with a VIN, it can't be changed.
Given the rather large amount of used ECMs I found on the market for my vehicle, I find such a statement a little odd. I think the dealer is shoveling some BS in order to sell a part at a handsome markup along with labor.
My question is, if I am being lied to, what do I need in terms of equipment to get a used ECM, install it and flash it with my VIN myself? If such equipment is cost prohibitive, can I contact one of these companies that sells ECMs and have them send me one preprogrammed with my VIN?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Mar 24, 2016, 2:09 AM
Post #2 of 8
(2200 views)
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Re: 2008 Sedona- Do I really need a brand new ECM?
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Some makes of ECMs can be reflashed and some cannot so the dealer may be telling you the truth. I don't know about that one in particular.
The equipment needed to flash the PCM starts at about $10K so I don't think you'll be doing it yourself.
Most PCMs cannot be flashed out of the car due to the security system so you may not be able to buy one already flashed.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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kev2
Veteran
Mar 24, 2016, 6:25 AM
Post #3 of 8
(2188 views)
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Re: 2008 Sedona- Do I really need a brand new ECM?
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here is what caught my eye......" in open loop (so that) it runs like a dream" yet in closed loop "injectors stop pulsing after a couple minutes of idling. " and concludes the PCM is bad???
You should find another technician to assist in this repair.
A professional scanner as well as someone to 'read' and analyze that information will be key.
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kj26569
New User
Mar 24, 2016, 8:48 AM
Post #4 of 8
(2180 views)
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Re: 2008 Sedona- Do I really need a brand new ECM?
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Thanks. I did some more digging and started reading about how it could be the fuel injector or the oil control vale in this case. Kia actually put a service bulletin out about the oil control valve. I am definitely checking those before I decide it is a computer issue.
I never could find a manual for the Sedona, but I have one for my Santa Fe and the part is the same. I will consult it about testing the injectors.
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kev2
Veteran
Mar 24, 2016, 11:59 AM
Post #5 of 8
(2169 views)
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Re: 2008 Sedona- Do I really need a brand new ECM?
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Without the proper tool a SCANNER with what we call live data
try this-- A DIYer easy diagnostic 123,
check oil. add I bottle of "risolone" oil detergent.
Check fuel pressure then with KOEO observe fuel pressure drop. Might be easier said than done, not sure KIA has a Schrader valve.
How do plugs on #2 and #4 look - WET dry BLACK tan? Confirm where are #2 and #4 cylinders on this engine ?
Do that and we will go on to next step.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Mar 24, 2016, 3:49 PM
Post #6 of 8
(2162 views)
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Re: 2008 Sedona- Do I really need a brand new ECM?
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If this vehicle's PCM senses too many misfires on a particular cylinder(s), it will disable the injectors (stop commanding) on that cylinder(s) to protect the catalyst. Important to know that when diagnosing a misfire issue on newer vehicles, so you don't go replacing something that isn't the fault. Asian PCMs are pretty robust.
I highly doubt your PCM is the problem. One way to know if the PCM is in fuel cut mode to protect the catalyst is to shut of the engine, restart the engine, and see if injector command is back. You better let your mechanic know that.
You really need to have your mechanic focus on why p0018 is popping up. Your mechanic should check out TSB KT2009050801.
http://www.autocodes.com/...ads/kia/kia-cvvt.pdf
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Mar 24, 2016, 4:14 PM)
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kj26569
New User
Mar 24, 2016, 4:53 PM
Post #7 of 8
(2147 views)
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Re: 2008 Sedona- Do I really need a brand new ECM?
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I found the KIA service bulletin about the variable timing solenoid and decided to check that and the injectors.
Got the van back this afternoon. Checked the injectors. All checked out good.
Pulled the variable timing control valve and found my problem.
After wrestling it to get it out without removing the plenum (a major plus), I found that the screen on it was damaged and part of it had found its way into the holes which kept the piston in the solenoid valve from closing all the way or opening any further. After calling the parts store for a new one, I decided to remove the screen completely and get the jammed part of the screen out and clean up the part.
Once it was cleaned up, I worked the piston back and forth a little and found that it would open up better but still couldn't quite close all the way. Another wrestling match with the van ensued to get the part back in. Once I put the van back together, it started up fine with no issues. I could tell from the way it started up, I had found the issue. It just didn't sound right before, almost too loud in a way. Anyway, it ran smoothly, I drove it a few miles and took it with me to buy some groceries when I got it home, the CEL came on again, but it is still running well.
No more p0018, new codes this time. P0022 which directly relates to the variable valve timing. Found out that it means the timing was being retarded too much, probably from a constant oil flow condition. No surprise, the solenoid I put back in is probably not closing all the way. The new one will fix that.
P0456- Evap system, small leak. I'm not sure about that one. I retightened the gas cap and hope that it might have been loose for now. I'm fixing the major issue first, resetting it, and seeing if the code comes back. Hoping it doesn't, but if it does, I will have to start checking the evap system for leaks.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Mar 24, 2016, 5:04 PM
Post #8 of 8
(2145 views)
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Re: 2008 Sedona- Do I really need a brand new ECM?
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Good to see that you got it figured out. Thank goodness money and time wasn't wasted on chasing a PCM. 2 and 4 are on the same bank your P0018 was showing up. Checking the OCV was a good call on your part. 
Inspect your fuel cap seal. If you can smell strong fuel vapors around the cap when it is tightened down, it could be just a bad cap. Make sure it isn't cracked or deformed. Inspect the filler neck flange where the cap seal rides for rust or other damage and all the other EVAP hoses/pipes and connections. It may come down to using a smoke machine to find the EVAP leak. Small leaks can be tough to find.
Closing this thread. If you still have issues with the EVAP system, start up a new thread. Thanks for the follow up.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Mar 24, 2016, 5:07 PM)
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