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dr.donut
User
Jun 27, 2018, 1:08 PM
Post #1 of 7
(2157 views)
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I've recently heard about the "gel battery " Can they be charged conventionally ? On a few other vehicles ( 2009+/-) I put the charger on them and the needle would sit at 6 amps setting , and it wouldn't move making me think the batts no good , but then I turn the key and they start , Is this what a gel battery acts like ?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 27, 2018, 3:32 PM
Post #2 of 7
(2150 views)
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There are 3 kinds of batteries. Flooded, Gel and AGM.
Flooded VS Gel Batteries: What Are The Differences?
In today’s automotive battery market, there are choices available for every application. Beyond the options of amp hours, cranking amps (CA) and cold cranking amps (CCA), there are differences in battery construction. These choices are among three main styles of battery: flooded lead acid batteries, gel lead acid batteries, and absorbent glass mat (AGM) batteries. What are the differences, and does charging play a factor in your choice?
Differences Between Flooded, Gel, and AGM Batteries
Flooded Batteries
Also known as a wet cell lead acid battery, a flooded battery contains liquid inside the case that interacts with the sandwich of lead and lead oxide plates. The liquid is a combination of deionized water and sulfuric acid, better known as simply the electrolyte. The electrolyte carries the charge through the battery.
Some flooded batteries are maintenance-free or sealed, while others are serviceable. In the event the electrolyte level diminishes in a serviceable battery, it can be topped up with distilled water to restore capabilities.
Because the electrolyte is low resistance, flooded batteries are ideal for high discharge applications followed by slow charging. For instance, flooded batteries are a great choice for engine starting applications. They don’t, however, tolerate deep cycle operation very well at all.
Gel Cell Batteries
The composition of gel batteries is very similar to a flooded battery. Alternating lead and lead oxide plates are immersed in an electrolyte. The major difference is the electrolyte: in a gel battery, silica is added to stiffen the electrolyte fluid. This means gel cell batteries are all maintenance-free.
The gelled electrolyte means gel batteries are safer to use and can be mounted in virtually any orientation (except upside down) without a danger of spillage. They are better lasting in hot weather and can tolerate very deep cycle operation. They are not the best choice for starting applications or high-amperage draw situations.
Absorbent Glass Mat Batteries
Like flooded and gel cell batteries, an electrolyte interacts with the battery plates. These plates may be flat, curved, or rolled. Between the plates is a layer of very thin glass fibers in which the electrolyte is suspended for the battery’s full lifetime. Like gel cell batteries, AGM batteries are all maintenance-free. Because both are maintenance free, they often get mistaken between the two despite their manufacturing differences.
AGM batteries are able to be mounted in nearly any position other than inverted, and are quite resistant to damage internally from vibration. Also, they hold a charge much better for intermittent use. Absorbent Glass Mat batteries are the optimal choice for deep cycle applications. Most can tolerate 300 or more cycles with a discharge rate of not more than 60 percent.
What Differences Are There in Charging Requirements?
Caring for a battery may not be as simple as you’d initially suspect. What works for one style can cause irreparable damage to another. Always follow the care instructions for your specific battery type.
Charging a Flooded Battery
Flooded or wet cell batteries work very well when large electrical draws are necessary. A flooded battery is capable of meeting the electrical needs quickly, although replacing the dispensed charge is a different matter. Recharging a flooded battery quickly generates high amounts of heat. The excessive heat will degrade the battery by causing the plates sulfate, resulting in a shorter life cycle than otherwise possible.
Proper charging for a flooded battery requires three stages: constant-current charge, topping charge and float charge. During the constant-current charge, a 1A charge brings the battery charge up to roughly 70 percent. The next step, the topping charge, continues the process up to about 98 percent of the full charge, and the current drops during this stage of the charge. The final stage, the float charge, brings the battery’s charge to full or near-full and maintains it there.
Charging a Gel Battery
A gel battery is intolerant of heat, much like a flooded battery. Instead of simply shortening the battery’s life, improper charging can cause immediate and irreversible damage inside, even for a new battery. When charging a gel battery, it’s critical to keep the charge rate low and slow. Otherwise, heat can cause burns in the electrolyte gel, rendering the battery useless.
A gel battery-compatible smart battery charger is best for charging a gel cell battery. The constant-current charge rate is regulated to keep the battery from overheating, then the charger switches to float charge. A gel battery can be kept for extended periods of time on a float charge.
Charging an AGM Battery
Due to its design, an AGM battery can be charged at a faster rate than a flooded or gel cell battery. In fact, it can be charged up to five times faster than flooded batteries. Once the bulk charge has been completed, it’s critical that AGM batteries are switched to a float charge to finish off the full charge.
AGM batteries are intolerant of overcharging so an AGM battery-compatible smart charger should always be employed.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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dr.donut
User
Jun 28, 2018, 3:47 AM
Post #3 of 7
(2125 views)
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O.K. thanks , So how can you tell when someone needs a jump start or charge ? Many times the batt. is not seen , should I step up and get a charger that is compatible for the gel & agm batts ?
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 28, 2018, 5:10 AM
Post #4 of 7
(2124 views)
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Dr. D : What vehicles come OE with "gel" cell battery or batteries? I'm asking you didn't say which or what just that if or you have a dead one.
OMG - with the thing dead reading zero I don't think you jump those! I may be wrong and may depend on exact applications. Get a charger just for it is my suggestion.
AGM is still lead and liquid acid just a spiral not flooded doesn't vent unless in serious trouble or overcharged. Gel should probably just die and stay dead, game over it's FUBAR. You put in a new charged one - near sure of that.
Limited aggravations with handicapped scooters ones I dealt with used two 12V gel cells in series to be a 24V powered vehicle is really what they are. Lower gauge wire needed with higher voltage weight a concern. They all come with chargers just for them or get the right one for what you have.
Understand since they do NOT put out fumes (normally) you plain don't allow them to go totally dead is probably "game over" if so.
They can't take being charged fast must automatically adjust amps of charge. OMG - this stuff in now in electric bikes, those funky two wheeled things forget the name of them most in the trash within the year from new.
You said 6AMP charge? NO would be my default answer and don't just jump it.
Unless you have some full range of selection on a charger that can do all types you are probably screwed. Yup - they place them out of sight many times have to or on purpose so you can't mess with them to short one out accidentally.
Follow instructions for the exact one you have and either have spares (monster bucks) or it's simply not allowed to go dead always on an automatic charger when not in use or if only for charging another power for the vehicle/thing self charges if powered by anything else.
Sounds a lot like Hybrid something you didn't say. IDK. Info with the specific one just because they are NOT all done the same. Sorry to sound so negative and no pun with that word but if a vehicle for use on public roads just go look at what 10 year old ones do trying to sell them. Almost can't is what I'm seeing.
Until you know each one with full specs in hand what is doing what.
It's just an opinion for now from me: If you are talking Hybrid to save fuel right now I think you are being fooled! The up front costs outweigh possible savings for all but a very few types of use usually slower city only driving and EVERONE I knew of that bought one or one now on a second gives up right away or the latter trades for new just in time. This if so for today is unfinished engineering and thought to be of any long term savings for a vehicle. One or the other, not both.
This stuff is never going to be ready to heat when sub-zero nor cool or couldn't use these then anyway. To me a faux selling point of how clean and eco-friendly this crap is if you think harder it exactly the opposite!
Sorry - if yours do some math. If not yours or yet till this is standardized more I'd avoid it precisely at the 10 year mark!
T
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dr.donut
User
Jun 28, 2018, 7:32 AM
Post #5 of 7
(2112 views)
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The one vehicle was a 2011 ford suv , this was last year I put the charger on it at 6 amps and left it for 1/2 hour the needle didn't move took charger off and started it up , lease ran out just recently and they never had a problem . The other one last month was a 2009 pt cruiser , put the jump on it for only 5-7 minutes and it started put a tester on the remote batt terminals and the voltage was up & down not passing 11 volts , I figured she needed an alt. but the garage said it was the batt. they replaced it and haven't had a problem , I though a dead batt. can't be charged . not sure what kind of batt they were , they didn't act like what i"m used to
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 28, 2018, 9:26 AM
Post #6 of 7
(2110 views)
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Ok so far I think but not done yet. Which PT cruiser are you messing with right now don't bring another in to confuse this please, one at a time.
Needle bounced up and down with gel cell? Quit it now and put a trickle charge on it you may get it back up right. IDK and not going to know if a gel cell is right at all for this. Alternator is regulated thru control module not at the alternator. If later it starts later see voltage drop while cranking and then what it reads when running if any different at least. It may snap out of this and get fully charged or not.
At some point you need to say if that battery belongs in this thing. They are cute looking retro nightmares reported all over this site anyway. At some point this battery should come out before if not already wrecked charged and tested off vehicle. Not my fault they hide it others do too. Smart isn't in the design, cute is.
Of all vehicles I leave it to you if thru vin# put what came in it for a battery back but charge it first. I think testing this out could be misleading info for you and or connections all along to make the remotes not clean and good enough. When some stuff is known checks for a drain or if it charges properly with this battery known OK and it was really dead or you were fooled how you tested or a connection.
Again test, test, test what it is now you should be able to see the poor connection if so with just a volt meter watch it drop between a post and eyelet see if they match. Make the starter the load and watch right then - may need a helper to do that with one turning key one checking can't know what you have to do it alone,
T
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dr.donut
User
Jun 28, 2018, 4:03 PM
Post #7 of 7
(2095 views)
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O.K. thanks ,
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