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(SOLVED) Car won't start and multiple systems no longer work after battery issue
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gunthrek
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May 4, 2023, 9:25 AM
Post #1 of 34
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(SOLVED) Car won't start and multiple systems no longer work after battery issue
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Greetings,
The battery on my wife's 2012 xB went bad and we were going to try to get the car running to go get a new one. I took the battery out of my F250 and tried to connect it, but I got a bunch of sparking and the horn went off and I heard some rapid clicking. Not sure why it did that since it's just another 12v battery, but I have to imagine it was a problem because now the starter doesn't react at all.
The windshield wipers, turn signals, and electric mirrors don't work either, nor will the radio turn on. The keyless entry responds with the noise, but does nothing to the locks. Other electrical items like the headlights, dome lights, hazard lights, etc. still work.
There's also a strange whirring sound coming from near the alternator when we turn the ignition to "on".
I've checked all the fuses and replaced the blown ones, but still nothing. I'm not even sure how to check the the weird "fuse block" that this car has that I've never seen before. I've tried tapping the starter solenoid to see if it was "fused", but still nothing.
Any help would be appreciated. I really hope I didn't somehow fry some wiring. I'm not able to fix that myself.
Thanks in advance.
(This post was edited by gunthrek on May 4, 2023, 4:07 PM)
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Sidom
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May 4, 2023, 9:41 AM
Post #2 of 34
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Re: Car won't start and multiple systems no longer work after battery issue
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It sounds like you got the terminals reversed and hooked up the battery backwards. A lot of Fords have reverse terminals on their batteries, so you really have to be careful and look for the plus and minus signs when hooking batteries up.
Sounds like you popped some main fuses, so you're going to have to get in there and get those little square fuses out and check them, if there's no window to look through at them, then you're going to have to get an ohm meter to check them, it's that or tow it to a shop and have it done
Hopefully the only thing you damage was fuses and didn't hurt any of the modules. Good luck hope things work out for you
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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May 4, 2023, 10:49 AM
Post #3 of 34
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Re: Car won't start and multiple systems no longer work after battery issue
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There's a very good possibility that you could have done some serious electronic damage.
Follow Sidom's instructions for the time being and see where that leaves you.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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gunthrek
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May 4, 2023, 11:33 AM
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Re: Car won't start and multiple systems no longer work after battery issue
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It sounds like you got the terminals reversed and hooked up the battery backwards. A lot of Fords have reverse terminals on their batteries, so you really have to be careful and look for the plus and minus signs when hooking batteries up.
Sounds like you popped some main fuses, so you're going to have to get in there and get those little square fuses out and check them, if there's no window to look through at them, then you're going to have to get an ohm meter to check them, it's that or tow it to a shop and have it done
Hopefully the only thing you damage was fuses and didn't hurt any of the modules. Good luck hope things work out for you
I just checked my Ford battery, and it appears that this is the case. I was unaware that batteries would have terminals installed in opposite locations, but that's definitely my fault for not checking the polarity before installing.
I've checked all the regular fuses, and none of the "box" fuses appear to have anything to do with main systems like ignition or ECU. It's all headlights and dimmers and stuff.
There is a very large, weird looking fuse that I believe is called a "fusable link", but from what I understand that's mostly to do with the alternator. I think it has an ECU part as well. None of the regular fuses under the hood or under the dash are blown at this point, and I replaced the ones that were.
I don't imagine I left it connected long enough to burn out any wiring, so based on the limited information here, are we looking at damaged modules, or does anyone with Scion experience know enough about the fusable link to know if that might be preventing all these things from working?
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Hammer Time
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May 4, 2023, 11:54 AM
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Re: Car won't start and multiple systems no longer work after battery issue
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You have not eliminated the fuses yet.
Those large "Maxi" fuses feed the inside fuse box.
When you test fuses you need to use a test light at both ends of the fuse with the key on so you will know if the fuse is even receiving any power.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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gunthrek
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May 4, 2023, 12:21 PM
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Re: Car won't start and multiple systems no longer work after battery issue
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You have not eliminated the fuses yet.
Those large "Maxi" fuses feed the inside fuse box.
When you test fuses you need to use a test light at both ends of the fuse with the key on so you will know if the fuse is even receiving any power.
Thanks for the quick responses!
I know about most general car repair, but my knowledge of electrical is sorely lacking aside from fuses and battery replacement.
I've attached a picture of the fuse box and cover below, which includes a diagram. As you can see, all the square block fuses appear to be fan or light related. I would imagine the other two blocks with all the wires coming out are distribution from the fuse box to the rest of the electrical system.
I can certainly check the other blocks, but I don't have a test light. I do have a multimeter, but I'm not exactly sure how to use that to test as you suggest. I imagine it uses the ohm function, but I'm not familiar with that process. Even if I do that, though, the diagram says they have nothing to do with the problems I'm having.
The only other part I have no idea about is the large fusible link on the left side. The videos I've watched thus far require you to pretty much take the entire fuse box apart, and even then they don't show how to check if it's still good or not. The diagram says it protects the heater, ABS system, radiator fan, CDS (condenser) fan, main headlamp, P/I (instrument panel? this actually still works), EPS (Electric Power Steering) and the alternator. Would any of those prevent the starter from engaging?
(This post was edited by gunthrek on May 4, 2023, 12:34 PM)
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Hammer Time
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May 4, 2023, 12:34 PM
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Re: Car won't start and multiple systems no longer work after battery issue
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You have 2 fuse boxes to test. The other fuse box is under the dash on the driver's side. That white section in the main box is all the maxi fuses.
You can use the meter by setting it to DC volts. Clip the plack lead to a good ground and use the red lead to probe. The fuses have 2 little access spots on top. Attach a pin or something to the red lead so it will reach into the fuse access point. With the key on check for power on both sides of the fuse. Power on one side means the fuse is blown. No power on either side in most cases means something is burnt out upstream cutting off power to the fuse.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on May 4, 2023, 12:35 PM)
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Sidom
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May 4, 2023, 12:42 PM
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Re: Car won't start and multiple systems no longer work after battery issue
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In the 2nd pic you posted.... in the bottom Right corner. That " rectangle box" with the plastic window is your main fuse. You probably popped it.
Google "2012 scion xb main fuse removal" and there should be a video or 2 on how to remove it.
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gunthrek
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May 4, 2023, 12:45 PM
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Re: Car won't start and multiple systems no longer work after battery issue
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I already checked the fuses under the dash. None of those were blown. A few of the ones under the hood were blown, but I've already replaced those.
Are the fuses all interconnected in some way? I'm seriously not trying to be argumentative, but I just don't understand how testing the headlamp or fan fuses would help. I admit I'm ignorant of electrical, so please let me know if there's an element here I have wrong.
My understanding of fuse boxes is that the power runs into the box and then branches out to the various systems through the individual fuses. In my mind, this means one fuse wouldn't have anything to do with any of the others, right? The headlamp fuse shouldn't be connected in any way to the ECU or starter or keyless entry or other systems, right?
As I said before, I'm assuming the blocks with the wires coming out of the top are the distribution to the rest of the car. Is it possible something is wrong there?
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Hammer Time
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May 4, 2023, 12:57 PM
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You're right. You do not understand electrical at all
A single fuse can feed multiple circuits. Larger fuses supply the power for smaller fuses elsewhere in the car. Fuses can power complete modules or power relays that operate complete systems.
You didn't test the fuses the way I asked so we are just spinning our wheels and getting nowhere.
And this is only the engine compartment fuse box.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on May 4, 2023, 12:58 PM)
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gunthrek
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May 4, 2023, 1:14 PM
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Re: Car won't start and multiple systems no longer work after battery issue
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Did you mean the bottom left? I believe that's called the "fusible link". I'm beginning to believe it's the culprit, and I did look up videos on how to remove it, but I can't find anything on how to diagnose it.
That is serviced as one part but there are multiple fusible links inside there that can be tested individually. The top cover should be removeable. Ok, I was able to get the cover off the main fuse and none of the fuses inside appear to be damaged.
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gunthrek
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May 4, 2023, 1:20 PM
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Understood and much appreciated. Is that list specific to my vehicle?
For testing, does the ignition have to be set to START, or just ON? I'll need a helper if it's the former. Should I test all the small fuses as well, or just the bigger box ones? I did a volt test with the ignition set to START yesterday for the smaller fuses related to ignition and they were at battery voltage.
(This post was edited by gunthrek on May 4, 2023, 1:26 PM)
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Hammer Time
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May 4, 2023, 1:24 PM
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No, just "ON", not start.
Please stop using the quote feature. It just makes the thread way larger than it needs to be. Everybody see every post anyway.
Yes, that is specific to your car.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on May 4, 2023, 1:27 PM)
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Sidom
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May 4, 2023, 1:27 PM
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Re: Car won't start and multiple systems no longer work after battery issue
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Take a picture and post what you're seeing with the window off.
You can look at a fuse to see if it's blown but sometimes they blow in a way where it's not obvious and it's best to check it with an ohm meter.
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Tom Greenleaf
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May 4, 2023, 1:31 PM
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"Fuses appear" good. Not so fast. Even without removing the dual spade ones, either side of those will be Bat+ if ground just a test light.
Even if out and looking good a few don't connect at all that would prove it good or not, Tom
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gunthrek
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May 4, 2023, 2:04 PM
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Is everything in the fuse box supposed to be receiving power when the key is on? Most of the small fuses are getting 12.4 volts from their supply side except the headlamp fuses on the right side...which is weird because the headlights turn on. The hazard/turn signal gets power, which is also weird because the hazards work but not the turn signals. I know all the engine control related ones are still connected to something because the whirring sound from the left side of the engine compartment shuts off when I take one of those out.
I took out all the box shaped fuses and tested the terminals they're attached to. Some had power, some did not, so I'm not sure if that's proper. Is there a document available that tells you what the correct power for the fuses should be? I'll go back through them all again and make a list of what gets power and what doesn't and compare it to the document if that's out there somewhere. It's just hard to know if it's working properly without reference material.
Or is this something I'm just not equipped to diagnose myself? We can't really afford a mechanic right now, and she needs her car, so I'll keep trying, but at the same time we just need it fixed, so if we have to figure out a mechanic, so be it.
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gunthrek
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May 4, 2023, 2:05 PM
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Would the Ohm function on a multimeter work? I can look up a video on how to use it that way if that's the case.
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Sidom
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May 4, 2023, 2:30 PM
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Some have power to them some others don't.
You can use an ohm meter but that is with key off and no power going to anything... Post that pic when you get a chance.
While I don't usually condone throwing parts at problems. If it comes down to it, depending on the cost of a new link. If the link is 30 to $40 and a tow & no start diag is in the $300 range, it might be worth it to roll the dice one time? 
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gunthrek
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May 4, 2023, 2:31 PM
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Yes, to test the fuses as suggested above.
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gunthrek
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May 4, 2023, 2:43 PM
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I tried to get clear pics from good angles. Hopefully this is helpful.
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Hammer Time
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May 4, 2023, 3:01 PM
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This thread is becoming way too long and making no progress.
I'm outa here.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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gunthrek
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May 4, 2023, 3:06 PM
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Not sure how that comment is helpful, but thanks for your time anyway.
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