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jjrbus
User
Aug 1, 2015, 10:22 AM
Post #26 of 65
(1357 views)
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Thanks for the responses.
I will have to get back to you on the system pressures, it is a nasty day out so up to other things.
Let me see if I have this right. Tom is not coming to FL anytime soon so I am on my own!
First I must determine what the pressures are and compare them to charts. They should be low and I should add enough gas to raise the amount in the system to 65% of R12 values, which would be 18.8 ounces. Watching the pressures as compared to charts. If the pressure gets too high while filling, mist the condenser to lower temps.
Drive the vehicle a bit and watch the thermometer in the vent and note temperature, if I am not in the mid 40's on a 85 degree day, I should check pressures and compare to charts and add a bit of gas if still low. Drive again and repeat until I have a vent temp below 50 degrees on a 85 degree day.
It sounds like I am looking for the lowest vent temp with the least amount of gas? Jim
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 1, 2015, 12:18 PM
Post #27 of 65
(1352 views)
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">>
It sounds like I am looking for the lowest vent temp with the least amount of gas? Jim <<"
Right. It's getting greedy + thinking more is going to help that screws people up,
T
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jjrbus
User
Aug 1, 2015, 2:31 PM
Post #28 of 65
(1347 views)
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Weather cleared up a bit and I am anxious to get this done!!
The ambient tempature out is 87 degrees.
LO HI
Before starting the vehicle the pressure was 94 100 Thats give or take a couple points my eyes are not that good.
I started vehicle and it showed at idle 24 220
I then added 6oz of 134 and showed 50 310
I have added a 12oz can and a further 6oz. But likely lost a small amount in changing cans and removing and installing manifold set. I decided to stop when I saw the 310 hi pressure, it is above what the handy andy chart shows. Now I realize I did not mist the radiator to lower pressures as I filled!
The thermometer in dash shows 70 degrees! I tested thermometer and seems accurate. And am now wondering if raising the RPMS above idle affects the pressures when filling?
The system calls for 29oz of R12 so 18oz of 134a is a bit under the 65% recommended starting point. Jim
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 1, 2015, 3:21 PM
Post #29 of 65
(1346 views)
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Yes, your system pressures are too high. Either you don't have enough air flowing through your condenser at idle, the condenser isn't efficient, or the system is overcharged (more than likely).
Your not going to get any cooling with those high pressures.
I suggest you recover and evac the system. Then recharge to 1 lbs 9 oz (24-25oz). Recheck your pressures once you have that correct charge.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Aug 1, 2015, 3:27 PM)
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jjrbus
User
Aug 1, 2015, 4:07 PM
Post #30 of 65
(1339 views)
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I am confused. You are saying the system is over charged (too much 134A?) and I need to evacuate my 18oz that I have put in the system and then add 24-25 oz, which is 6 to 7oz more than I have in there now?
Jim
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 1, 2015, 4:57 PM
Post #31 of 65
(1335 views)
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Sorry, I didn't realize that you have 18 oz in there already.
Here is the retrofit chart for that one:
If you put a water hose on the condenser, what happens to your pressures and outlet temps?
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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jjrbus
User
Aug 1, 2015, 5:34 PM
Post #32 of 65
(1332 views)
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Thanks for the quick response and the chart. The 700 CC converts to 23.67oz and I am way under that at 18oz
The 100cc of oil converts to 3.38oz, I put in 7oz of PAG 46 so hope the 3.38 is for compressor replacement?
I will mist the condenser and report back. Like so many other things it slipped my mind when I was charging. Jim
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jjrbus
User
Aug 3, 2015, 2:33 PM
Post #33 of 65
(1317 views)
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Here I am befuddled again! It is 83 degrees out with 66% humidity
Hooked up gauges with cold engine off and show 90 and 90.
Started and engine cold show 45 low and 225 hi
with warm engine 100 and 250 hi vent temp 60
I misted condeser and 55 low 182 hi vent temp 58
Left to stabilize 80 low 250 hi vent temp 60
Vent temps are not 100% accurate, hard to read gauge. Jim
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 3, 2015, 10:07 PM
Post #34 of 65
(1291 views)
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Jim,
Static pressure is correct with cold engine - would be with few oz in system - means not empty.
You really can't have a reading of 80 (low) and 250 (high) and 60F vent temps?
Wrong observations or wrong charge somehow. 83F day (actual at vehicle) is about perfect for testing IMO and experience.
For now - it must have wrong charge weight,
Tom
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jjrbus
User
Aug 3, 2015, 10:25 PM
Post #35 of 65
(1286 views)
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Hey Tom, thanks for the response. I will double check everything tomorrow. I am still at 65% fill or 18oz. Jim
(This post was edited by jjrbus on Aug 3, 2015, 10:32 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 3, 2015, 10:40 PM
Post #36 of 65
(1282 views)
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See PM - private message, T
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jjrbus
User
Aug 4, 2015, 2:51 PM
Post #37 of 65
(1261 views)
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Hey Guys! Took the money pit out for a ride today, just a few miles but needed gas. 50/55 MPH and vent temp at 60° Outside temp 90° Humidity 45%
Note to self tighten all the radiator hose clamps next time to avoid working on vehicle in street! Luckily happened at friends house.
Came home took nap and let vehicle cool off, not cold still warm when begin.
Static pressure was 100 100 Ambient 93° 45% humidity
Start vehicle and 20 / 190 Hi pressure needle is quivering a bit
Let run a bit 30 / 235 Vent 70
Mist 15 / 150 vent 64
Warms up 25 / 200
Increase idle 15 / 150 vent 68
Returns to 30 / 250 vent 72
This seem much more within the charts so decide to add R134A
1oz 30 / 290 vent 66
Add 1 more oz 37 / 290 vent 66
Let set a bit 35 / 275 vent 64
I do not know what happened between yesterday and today but this seem's to be in line with charts?
Should I keep adding a little at a time until I get a lower vent temp?? Jim
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 4, 2015, 3:04 PM
Post #38 of 65
(1257 views)
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I wouldn't add yet. Pressures show OK to me but not reflecting vent temps. Have I/we suggested pinching off inlet heater hose yet? If not try that as any heat from heater core will wreck your vent temps.
IMO with those pressures you should be getting about 45F +/- with some run time at vents,
T
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 4, 2015, 4:21 PM
Post #39 of 65
(1253 views)
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I believe the Toyotas of that year have a heater control valve up against the firewall right behind the intake manifold. Its hitting those pressures and it isn't even charged up totally. Something has to be wrong on the high side.
How do the refrigerant lines feel? The low side pipe coming out of the firewall should be ice cold and the smaller high side should be warm.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Aug 4, 2015, 4:25 PM)
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jjrbus
User
Aug 4, 2015, 7:00 PM
Post #40 of 65
(1246 views)
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I appreciate the time and effort you are putting into this. Correct on the heater control valve, I will close that off and see what happens. It was functioning properly a week ago when I flushed the cooling system, but you never know!
I did not know I should be checking the refrigerant line temperatures!! Will do.
R12 for system was 29oz, so put in 18oz 134A, I added 2oz today for a total of 20oz. I wanted to test my manifold set today but can figure no way to do it??
Jim
(This post was edited by jjrbus on Aug 4, 2015, 7:09 PM)
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 5, 2015, 10:01 AM
Post #41 of 65
(1234 views)
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Here are some pics of my 92 Toyota 3.0L idling with ambient temps at 89 degrees. Fully charged after driven 5 miles.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 5, 2015, 10:12 AM
Post #42 of 65
(1231 views)
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Geez DS - how'd you do that? Right smack on the money! Tom
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 5, 2015, 11:45 AM
Post #43 of 65
(1225 views)
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He did it by turning the fan speed down. Not the way to measure temp.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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jjrbus
User
Aug 6, 2015, 7:52 AM
Post #44 of 65
(1202 views)
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Morning!
I took the Toy for a short ride this morning 8 miles. The temp is 85 with 73% humidity. I had the lines to the heater core clamped off. Driving along I got a vent temp of 53. At home I checked the liquid line with new Ir gun. It showed the liquid line at 302° and vacuum line at 81°. Condenser was 139 and out at 105. NOt sure what is terminology for condenser, hi and low, in and out??
I have not taken any pressure readings.
Do these temperature readings seem right?? Or do I need a new IR gun? Jim
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 6, 2015, 8:35 AM
Post #45 of 65
(1199 views)
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Don't think that your readings are correct. If you try to measure shiny things with an IR gun, your going to get goofy readings. You have to put a black sticker on the line. Then measure the sticker.
Also pay attention to the distance to spot ratio.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Aug 6, 2015, 8:48 AM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 6, 2015, 8:44 AM
Post #46 of 65
(1194 views)
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OK - If vent temp taken on a solid flap was really 53F then pressure under hood on low side should read about 30-40 PSI. That reflects the temp rise of going thru the ductwork which commonly adds 5-10F to actual evap temp and it's pressure,
T
DS - PM he told me same IR thermo of two I have. It doesn't read from the red line which can be wrong. Doesn't care - just checked a mirror, white object and black object got same temp. Light is separate on that one, T
(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Aug 6, 2015, 8:48 AM)
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jjrbus
User
Aug 6, 2015, 9:42 AM
Post #47 of 65
(1184 views)
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Will play with gun a bit. Ir vent temperature was within a couple degrees of inserted thermometer, so have 2 readings there that agree.
While I have your attention DS posted a chart above which shows 100 CC of oil. 100CC is 3.38oz All the charts I found showed 7 oz total for system. IS 3.38 just for compressor replacemant?? Or might I have too much oil?
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jjrbus
User
Aug 6, 2015, 10:41 AM
Post #48 of 65
(1183 views)
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Painted flat black on VAcuum and fluid lines. Tried moving gun around, too much hose and such in way will need a touch thermometer.
This is what I got Temp 92, humidity 56% static with warm engine 105 lbs
Start up 30 lo 235 hi
5 min 40lo 260 hi vent 68° Vent temp is with heater lines clamped!
10 min 42lo 300hi vent 68 Vent temp is avg of 2 thermometers.
Liquid line is 125° vacuum line is 114° ????? Will look for different thermometer. Jim
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 6, 2015, 11:23 AM
Post #49 of 65
(1181 views)
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Jim - Can you hear request for "recirc" (an icon on button on this I think) move a door? If this is taking in outside air only this could be credible now. If recirculating should be picking up air from under dash only. IDK - bet you could see smoke draw it in?
This is NOT exact for vehicles but I expect a drop of about 40F from what goes thru evap. If mixed or getting around it, it will and performance show it. Duh - returned air after a little while will be lots cooler than outside air and "re-cooling that,"
T
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jjrbus
User
Aug 6, 2015, 11:58 AM
Post #50 of 65
(1178 views)
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Thanks for quick response. I have part of dash out so can see door, it is drawing outside air. Jim
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