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1990 Town Car 5.0 v8 cooling problems
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magic_ninja
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Aug 14, 2009, 11:27 AM
Post #1 of 13
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1990 Town Car 5.0 v8 cooling problems
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Okay so last winter i hooked up a bypassed heater-core on my lincoln (it was bypassed when i bought the car and now i have a heater-core to install). Anyway, since then I have had nothing but trouble from the coolant system of the car and the pipes coming out of the core to under the hood were not blocked off. I let it set for a month and the overheating problems went away, around 2-3 months later the water pump went out. Its been about 2 months since i changed the water pump and it has been overheating while running the AC in town or idling (i have not let it get to a dangerous temp though). Today I noticed coolant leaking and checked, and it was the same leaking as before (my water pump is out again). I need to figure out whats going on with my coolant system in the car and what i should do to get it up to par. This motor has 120,000 miles on it, so its got alot of life left in it. It runs fine as well. What should i do to keep the water pump from going out again and get the cooling system up to par (i noticed it had a lot of rust and corrosion and has had straight water ran in it for a couple years).
HERE IS SOME NEW INFO:
Okay so I idled the car with the AC on (to create the problem scenario) and filled the radiator completely (fill the radiator, wait for it to go down, fill some more, until completely full and also getting the air out of the system). Once completely full i kept the cap on and let it idle, idled for around 30 minutes all together, and it didn't overheat and i didn't notice the leak coming from the bottom two pulleys (water-pump and power steering pulley's i believe, its two pulleys one right in front of the other at the spot for the crank pulley and harmonic balancer). I probably got the names of the pulley's wrong but i can provide photographs if needed. Could heat be manipulating one of the hoses/clamps on the waterpump to be causing this leak? I would think if it was a bad water-pump it would be leaking all the time, and even after 30 minutes of idling and the coolant being completely warm there was no leakage from the water pump.
(This post was edited by magic_ninja on Aug 14, 2009, 12:50 PM)
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Aug 15, 2009, 9:48 AM
Post #2 of 13
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Re: 1990 Town Car 5.0 v8 cooling problems
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magic; You need to find out, for sure, where the leak is originating. There is a by-pass hose directly above the water pump that can leak, a faulty pump of course, or the timing cover gasket. A pressure test should confirm if it's the hose or the timing cover gasket. I've run into water pumps that would leak only 1)when hot, 2)when cold, 3)under pressure, 4)no pressure. You should be able to take a look at the seep hole on the underside of the pump to see if there is a 'coolant trail' where it may have leaked. Not sure if this engine/application uses electric cooling fan(s). If it does, make sure that they are coming on once it has reached temp. If it uses a clutch fan, make sure it 'locks up' once the engine reaches temp. You shouldn't be able to 'spin' it when warm. Oh, and never use rebuilt water pumps. Only new.
Once your leak is solved, get that system clean. May take several flushes. May result in more leaks...freeze plugs, ect. I had a '92 Lincoln TC in yesterday. Mint condition, except for the cooling system. Every one of the freeze plugs were leaking, including the ones at the rear of the engine. The engine is going to have to be removed to do all of them.
Loren
SW Washington
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magic_ninja
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Aug 15, 2009, 11:36 AM
Post #3 of 13
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Re: 1990 Town Car 5.0 v8 cooling problems
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Okay, here is what I've got.
Drove the car around today with AC on max and got the car heated (took about 20 miles of driving). Once the car was up to operating temps I let it idle and water started leaking from the top bleeder hole of the water pump. Obviously this needs replaced. It was a new pump, and matched the one I pulled off perfectly. It has a lifetime warranty on it as well, so I can get a new one. I did apply silicon, RTV, whatever you choose to call it (thermal grade as well). I also torqued the bolts to specifications, however all I had was a needle wrench, but I am pretty sure it accurately did the job. The system was probably a 35/70 mixture of coolant/water with around 5-10% leftover from the old engine.
Fan Clutch - Performing fine.
Heater Hoses:
I'm sure I hooked them up right, based on the sizes each hose could only reach one side of the heater core.
My questions:
1. Its obvious this cooling system has been neglected and if I don't get it in order I'll end up blowing the motor or the head-gasket at least. I need to get the cooling system clean and up to par. What would be the best process to flush my system during the repair (could I do it before the water-pump as long as I keep the car idle). I would like to get all the gunk out of my system, as I have a new heater-core as well. I would like to have clean coolant flowing through the heater-core.
2.What other things might I want to look into, could the radiator be the primary cause of this? What will I need to do to make sure the cooling system is cleaned?
Repairs performed:
Coolant system flush
Top and Bottom radiator hoses
Water pump
I do have the book for this vehicle as well, so I have the specs I need for everything, as well as the owner's manual.
Thanks for your replies.
Added: what are freeze plugs, where are they located?
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Aug 16, 2009, 6:19 AM
Post #4 of 13
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Re: 1990 Town Car 5.0 v8 cooling problems
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magic; In two months, I doubt that it would be the rust that caused the pump failure; And, there's nothing you could have done to cause it. Just happens. There is a seal inside the pump that fails. And, there are varying qualities of replacement pumps. Don't know where you purchased yours, but try and stay with a good quality pump. Even they 'can' go bad, but less likely.
Not sure what a 'needle' wrench is?
As far as flushing goes; If you remove the thermostat, this procedure will be quicker; I'd do it before replacing the pump, if you can do it without overheating. Most parts stores sell flush chemicals. Drain the coolant out of the radiator (if still clean, you can save and reuse it; If not, dispose of it properly) and refill with water. Run the engine until warm, then drain and fill again. You can't do this too many times. Each time, it'll get a bit cleaner. Once you are 'satisfied' with the results, refill again with water, add the flush chemical, and do it again following the instructions on the chemical container. This stuff will be, more than likely, toxic, so when you drain it out, dispose of it properly. I would suggest doing one last clean water flush afterwards to make sure you've got all of the chemical out of the system. A 50/50 mix with water and anti-freeze is ideal. Too much anti-freeze can cause an over heating condition as it doesn't dissapate the heat as well as water. Too little anti-freeze doesn't give you enough freeze protection, rust protection, and boil temp. protection.
Freeze plugs, or soft plugs, really aren't what they say they are. I used to think that they were there in case the water in the engine block froze, they'd allow for the expansion and be 'pushed' out, saving the block. Although I have actually seen this, that isn't what they were designed for. Usually, there are three on each side of the engine block, one or two at the rear of the engine (have to pull the engine or transmission to see them) and usually one at each end of each cylinder head. Replacing the plugs isn't a tough job once you've gained access. THAT (gaining access) can be a nightmare. On your application, it would probably be easier to remove the engine and replace all of them. If it comes to that.
Loren
SW Washington
(This post was edited by Loren Champlain Sr on Aug 16, 2009, 6:20 AM)
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magic_ninja
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Aug 16, 2009, 12:13 PM
Post #5 of 13
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Re: 1990 Town Car 5.0 v8 cooling problems
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Alright, well flushed the radiator, I used a garden-type pressure hose (has like 8 or so settings, not very much psi) and flushed from the top of the radiator on both sides down and the water ran out fine, at the same rate as it was flowing in and clear as well after a little bit. Then i removed the thermostat and sprayed into the thermostat housing, the water ran from the bottom of the waterpump with fine pressure and clear as well after a bit. Tested the thermostat by dropping it into boiling water and after a minute, it opened up just fine and slowly closed after i removed it. Doing the water-pump tomarrow.
As for the pump I used not sure, it was a 42 dollar water pump and bought from oriely's new. We pretty much only have autozone and oreily's here and I never have been much of a fan of autozone. We will see what happens after the 2nd waterpump repair and if it fails again. The coolant flow seems to be fine, btw i reccomend a racheting wrench if you ever have to remove a thermostat from one of these, the waterpump, alternator bracket and distributor are RIGHT in the way of any rachet access, lol, and its a pain in the ass with a locktighted bolt on :-(. Getting a new radiator cap, thermostat gasket and waterpump tomarrow as my radiator cap has a crack on the rubber seal inside the top of the cap, not sure if this could be the culprit of overheating myself, but it very well could be.
(This post was edited by magic_ninja on Aug 16, 2009, 12:17 PM)
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magic_ninja
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Aug 16, 2009, 1:23 PM
Post #7 of 13
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Re: 1990 Town Car 5.0 v8 cooling problems
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I just used a normal ole 1/2 wrench and it gets the job done, however much your fingers may hurt at the end.
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Aug 17, 2009, 10:19 AM
Post #8 of 13
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Re: 1990 Town Car 5.0 v8 cooling problems
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The radiator cap is very important. First, it seals the system. If air can get in there, rust will be the result. Secondly, it keeps the water IN the system. Otherwise, the water will just go past the cap, into the recovery bottle. The bottle will overflow, and won't get 'sucked' back into the radiator once it cools down. Thirdly, a pressurize system raises the boiling point. Straight water without pressure boils at 212F. Under pressure, that boiling point climbs at varying degrees of pressure. I'm sure someone here has a chart.... I should have asked you about the cap at the beginning of this. Sorry.
Loren
SW Washington
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magic_ninja
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Aug 17, 2009, 12:57 PM
Post #9 of 13
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Re: 1990 Town Car 5.0 v8 cooling problems
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Is there any way you guys can post me the torque specs for the power steering pump and water pump, I can't find my manual. Thanks.
Also if you can post a diagram of where the heater-core is in the dash it would help a great deal as i'm doing this too before I fill the cooling system back up.
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Aug 18, 2009, 9:12 AM
Post #10 of 13
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Re: 1990 Town Car 5.0 v8 cooling problems
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magic; The water pump mounting bolt torque spec is 12-18 ft.lbs. Couldn't find anything on the power steering, though. I would think 25 ft.lbs. should be sufficient.
The heater core replacement is not for a novice. The whole dash has to come off. For an experienced tech, the labor time is 6.2 hrs. You may want to reconsider this? btw, it is mounted under the dash, behind the glove box, inside a plastic box that is easy to break, along with electrical connections, ect., ect.
I've been doing this for nearly 40 years, and I don't hate myself enough to tackle a job like this. If you are determined to do it, I'd suggest buying a GOOD manual that give step by step instructions. Good luck.
Loren
SW Washington
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magic_ninja
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Aug 18, 2009, 1:39 PM
Post #11 of 13
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Re: 1990 Town Car 5.0 v8 cooling problems
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Thank you, I got all back together today with the waterpump, minus the fan/clutch fan shroud top/bottom heater hoses and alternator and assembly. As far as the heater core goes my uncle has done several and can provide help if I get stuck, the electronics don't worry me as its kind of one of my hobbies, and it shouldn't be that difficult. Thanks for the advice and I'll keep posting updates to see how the heater-core hoses go
BTW i broke a bolt on the air conditioner compressor pulley. There is still two and the pulley is held on strong/sturdy as I got the bolt in completely before it broke. I know its not the smartest thing, but you think the pulley will still hold fine? If not i'll end up using some african american inginuity to get it done.
Okay, IT IS NOT THE AIR CONDITIONER COMPRESSOR PULLEY. Not sure which pulley it is, but its at the bottom left of the engine looking at it from the front. Anyway I figured out how to get the bolt out, thanks for all the help guys, its about time for a new heater-core thread :-). My uncle is a mechanic and said if i get stuck he will come help me.
(This post was edited by magic_ninja on Aug 19, 2009, 7:28 AM)
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Aug 19, 2009, 8:25 AM
Post #12 of 13
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Re: 1990 Town Car 5.0 v8 cooling problems
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magic; With your attidute, patience, and determination, I feel pretty confident that you'll get through it. Please, keep us posted.
Loren
SW Washington
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magic_ninja
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Aug 19, 2009, 3:28 PM
Post #13 of 13
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Re: 1990 Town Car 5.0 v8 cooling problems
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It was the air pump, only found that out after I pulled it off. Looked on the net, found out about easy-outs drilled it out (easy out got it 2-3 threads out then broke lol) but enough that it broke the bolt and I could unscrew it out. Got dark once we got to the fan clutch/fan (lol i forgot to put the pulley on the fan/clutch) so hopefullyt omarrow i'm filling back up. Save the heater-core til I figure out why the impala is overheating. Coolant boiling out of resivior after some sustained driving. My guess would be a stuck thermostat. Anyway thanks for the help, I'll try to help answer some questions ont he site as well. I'm not professional but my entire family does their own mechanic work, and a good job at that, so even though I just started I already have a background of knowledge, i just need to aquire the know-how, and only one way to do that.
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