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Engine surging after driving a little while
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lashawnnull
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Mar 18, 2012, 11:14 AM
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Engine surging after driving a little while
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1998 Nissan Pathfinder 4WD 3.3L SFI6
104,000 miles
The truck starts good, idles smooth but after driving for about 20 minutes it starts surging and "bucking". Will idle fine in Drive but as soon as I accelerate, I have loss of power and this surging, which is consistent and the RPM needle fluctuates accordingly. I've only owned this truck for about a month and this started a week ago. Seems it's worse the hotter it is outside, it takes less than 20 minutes before acting up. It has never stalled. Any help in troubleshooting this would be greatly appreciated.
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lashawnnull
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Mar 18, 2012, 11:27 AM
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Re: Engine surging after driving a little while
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I'm sorry, I forgot to mention that the check engine light has never came on.
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speed
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Mar 18, 2012, 12:05 PM
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Re: Engine surging after driving a little while
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codes can still be thrown even without the check engine light coming on, from what you say it sounds like it starts missing badly under load. take it to your local parts store and have them scan for codes and come back with your results.
GM ASEP 26 SCC Milford ASE certified in Brakes and Electrical on Thursday April 5th 2012
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lashawnnull
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Mar 18, 2012, 12:11 PM
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Re: Engine surging after driving a little while
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I will try to get in to town and do this today and will get back with you with what I find out. Thanks!
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speed
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Mar 18, 2012, 12:13 PM
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No problem from the way it sounds it should be throwing codes and that will help with diagnosis
GM ASEP 26 SCC Milford ASE certified in Brakes and Electrical on Thursday April 5th 2012
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lashawnnull
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Mar 18, 2012, 2:34 PM
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Ok, there were no codes. The guy there said I must have got some bad gas. I think if it were bad gas it would be running like this all the time not just when it gets hot. What are your thoughts on it being the fuel filter or fuel pump??
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nickwarner
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Mar 18, 2012, 4:10 PM
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Re: Engine surging after driving a little while
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Get a fuel pressure reading to confirm, both when it runs right and when it doesn't. If it stays the same then the fuel pressure can be ruled out. If a filter is causing you the issue replace the pump too. Its been overstressed and will fail soon.
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lashawnnull
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Mar 23, 2012, 8:15 PM
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Some new developments with this situation...I went to town on Monday and was going to go to the Nissan dealership but I broke down, was stranded in a gas station parking lot. The vehicle was surging so hard it felt like the engine was going to fall out so I stopped there. I had trouble getting it to start and there were a few times that I did get it started and idling but as soon as I put my foot on the brake it died. It died any time I touched the power window button or put on a blinker. Electronic stuff like the AC and radio didn't have any effect but the blinkers, windows and brake lights killed it. There's a 4X4 shop across the street so I went and talked to the guys there while I waited for a ride. They thought it might be fuel filter. That's a cheap part so that got replaced. She started up, idled nice and smooth and as soon as the guy that helped me left, she died again as soon as I put my foot on the brake. I left it there for fear of causing damage or breaking down on the highway. I went back there a few hours later, checked that the fuel pump was operating which it was so I was going to attempt to get her home but as soon as I turned on my headlights she died. I went back the next morning and was able to get it home but after about 10 minutes of driving it started loping again. I made a lot of calls and everyone kept telling me alternator. I spent half the day yesterday getting that off, (it's in quite the tight spot) taking it to be tested and putting it back on after it passed all the tests at autozone. I was really hoping it was in fact the alternator because now I'm back to square one, not being able to figure it out. It's like clock work that it starts, idles and drives fine when it's cold but when the temperature needle gets exactly between the cold and hot mark (regular operating temp) it starts dropping RPMs and/or dies when headlights or windows are operated. If I am able to get it in gear and drive. as soon as the tranny shifts into 2nd gear it starts the surging and jerking business. I really wanted to avoid taking it somewhere and paying a ton of money. I might have to do that anyway but I thought I'd post this and see what, if anyl ideas you guys have. Thanks
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nickwarner
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Mar 23, 2012, 8:35 PM
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Try jumping the fuel pump ground directly to battery ground and see if the same result occurs. If not, you have already found the issue. If it does post back and we can help. We need a fuel pressure reading from your truck along with a voltage reading at the connector if unsatisfactory.
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lashawnnull
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Mar 23, 2012, 9:13 PM
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Thanks Nick for you quick reply. Like I said, I tried to get to town on Monday to get the fuel pressure reading and I didn't make it there. I'll try again and I'll have to have someone help me with the fuel pump ground to the battery ground, that's something I don't have a clue how to do, I just try to do a lot of stuff myself when I can because I'm tired of being ripped off, ya know? Just to clarify, are you saying if the fuel pressure reading is unsatisfactory to get a voltage reading at the connector of, what? the fuel pump?
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 25, 2012, 5:11 PM
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Not only would you want to monitor fuel pressure while attempting to diagnose the problem, but it would probably be a good idea to monitor the PCM's system voltage and ground circuits for excessive voltage dropping too using something like a graphing multimeter if possible with a scanner watching the datastream to make sure you don't have a PCM powering up and down while the problem is occurring. The PCM controls the fuel pump relay.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Mar 25, 2012, 5:15 PM)
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nickwarner
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Mar 25, 2012, 5:35 PM
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I realize the bills you get from your auto shop are higher than you would like, but I would refrain from using the term ripped off too loosely. Your vehicle is entering its parts eating period and its par for the course with anything mechanical that things will break. Often it seems as soon as you pay for one repair the car acts up yet again. Many times this is due to the next part down the line going out. Bear in mind that the people who are giving you their advice are all the same professional mechanics who have more money in their toolsets than it takes to buy a new Escalade. We are the same people accused daily of ripping people off because they are ignorant of how the very complicated systems that make their cars operate function on even the most basic level. This is not meant as an insult, but a statement of fact. I do not specialize in what you do for a living and would not have the proper grasp on why my bill from you is what it is because I lack your years of knowledge and training. The inverse is true when you deal with us. We have made our livelihood keeping vehicles like yours on the road. There are some shady shops out there, and we feel the ramifications of them regularly because people are suspicious of us. They think we are hosing them to make a few extra bucks. The thing is every car, no matter how well driven or maintained, will eventually break parts. Its the nature of the beast. We don't need to rip anyone off in a shop because cars will break of their own accord and regularly need repair. It is in our best interests to deliver proper repairs with reliable parts at a competive price because we know your car is going to break something again later and we want your repeat business. But before I go off on a tangent, lets get back to finding out whats wrong with your truck...
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lashawnnull
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Mar 25, 2012, 7:42 PM
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Nick, I'm terribly sorry if I offended you by using the term "ripped off", I certainly didn't mean to and I don't judge all by the actions of a few. It must be my terrible luck that I find myself at the shady shops. I have had awful experiences and not entirely due to the fact that I have little understanding of the mechanics of a vehicle. It is very frustrating to pay high bills at a shop but I don't mind if I can't handle it myself and my vehicle is getting fixed. Just so you know I didn't use the term loosely and just so you understand, I actually purchased parts and paid the shop to do the install and when I reached my destination it was discovered by a professional that some of the parts I purchased were not even installed on the vehicle. That's just one specific experience of mine that I felt I should share so that you know where I'm coming from. But again, I apologize, I wasn't insulting all shops or all mechanics by no means so please don't think I'm one of those snotty, ignorant women who just accuse people of ripping them off. I have had very real, very negative experiences so of course it's a scary thing for me to think about shelling out a bunch of cash and worrying if things are going to go right this time. I am extremely grateful and appreciative to anyone who takes the time to listen to me and try to help me with my mechanical problems. Believe me, I have tons of other things I'd rather be doing than working on my vehicle, it's not easy for me because I don't have your years of expertise and skill, I do it because I've been treated in a manner that has driven me to the point where I feel it's in my best interest to do as much as I can on my own. But anyway, I will finally be getting to town tomorrow and will attempt to get those fuel pressure readings. As always, thank you for your time, I do appreciate your help very much!
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nickwarner
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Mar 26, 2012, 4:34 PM
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It wasn't my intent to chastize you, but to clarify facts from our perspective. I'm sorry you've had the experiences you have had. For a shop to not install parts you were charged for is very shady. We hear these sorts of things all the time from the victims of a few bad apples who cast a shadow upon our industry. They rip people off for the quick buck and lose out on the real profits from repeat customers and referrals. Its bad business from an economic standpoint and disgraceful from a moral one.
We will be awaiting your test results so we can further assist you in figuring this problem out.
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lashawnnull
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Mar 27, 2012, 3:17 PM
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Hey again. I completely agree with you 100% Nick. About my pathfinder...I went to the Nissan dealership to make an appt to get in there and get this thing some diagnostics done and they won't be able to help me out until next Monday. I've been doing a ton of research since then and have tried some other things. A mechanic that I spoke with was sure that if I cleaned the MAF sensor and the IACV with carb cleaner and replaced the engine coolant temp sensor that my problem would be solved. I did that, because the temp sensor was only 22 bucks. I know it's not smart to just be throwing parts at it but that was pretty inexpensive so I went ahead. I've still got the same thing going on. The only improvement is that now when it's warmed to operating temperature the blinkers and windows don't kill it but the headlights still do sometimes. Other times the rpms fall to 0 but then bounce back up. I have also discovered that the engine only surges at 2000 rpms and above. I realize you guys have suggested I get these other things tested and checked before you could tell me anything but I just thought I'd update with this info. Also, in my many hours of research I came across a post where the guy described my exact problem to a "t" and he fixed it with a new distributor. That's a $300 part so I'm not real comfortable doing that without knowing for sure. I do hear some weird noise coming from the distributor, a kind of grinding, that I've been told is not normal. Wondering what your thoughts are on that. As always, thanks for your time! 
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 27, 2012, 3:42 PM
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I don't know why this thread is in the Motorcycle seat repair category but I'm going to move it the general automotive category.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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lashawnnull
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Mar 27, 2012, 5:59 PM
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It was originally a thread in the engine troubleshooting category. I saw the other day it had been marked "moved" but I didn't know where or why...
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 27, 2012, 6:04 PM
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I just deleted that link too. You're in the "Car troubleshooting" now where you should be.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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nickwarner
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Mar 28, 2012, 5:16 PM
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Archived posts do indeed help others with the same problem and vehicle. It gives you an idea where to start and what others have run into. But realize that there are many different things that can cause the same trouble you are havine. I can see why you tried the coolant temp sensor, and at the cost was indeed a cheap gamble. May even come out ahead in the long run. What troubles me the most is that when you turn your headlights on it will exacerbate the condition. If you are able to put a meter on it, what is the voltage when you turn on the lights? If it is withing spec I might suspect a poor ground, and the light circuit overloading it. Its like 200 people trying to cram through a door to a concert. Things get slow at the point of restriction. If not as many people there at once, it can handle the traffic.
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lashawnnull
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Apr 5, 2012, 6:03 PM
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I thought I'd stop by and update this situation. I took my pathfinder to a shop. They were supposed to run some diagnostics for me. I specifically requested all the readings that you guys suggested I get. I went in after work to see what they had found. They had replaced my plugs and wires, without getting the ok from me. He said that 2 of my spark plugs were cracked. I asked how this could happen and he said that someone put them in wrong, too tight, and broke them. I replied that that's odd because I never touched the spark plugs and it ran perfectly for the first 3 weeks I had it. The other thing that puzzled me was the fact that if there were problems like that I'm positive I should have gotten a check engine light. The guy told me that my ride is equipped with 2 separate units that emits and stores codes. One of which doesn't alert you when there's a problem with one or more cylinders. I'm still not sure why the other one didn't give me a check engine light and code. They also told me that there was a stored code for the crank shaft position sensor, (??) I think that was the name, if that's the sensor that's inside the distributor. (I've read so much and have so many different parts names rolling around in my head! LOL) Not sure why autozone didn't see that when I had the codes pulled there. That would have certainly gotten me on the right track a lot sooner and saved me a lot of trouble and confusion... Anyway, they told me that my positive cable on the battery was loose and that was causing the stalling. I had checked the battery. That was one of the first things I checked. The cables and clamps were in very good shape, no corrosion and they were tight so that puzzled me. ok. So now I owe over 100 bucks for spark plugs and wires that were somehow damaged. They said it was running "better" but my distributor was shot. They cleaned it out as best they could but it could/would completely go out on me on my way home or it could last a week or more. I agreed to having them replace the distributor for me because I priced it at $300 but they said they could get one for 209 and would put it in for 80. I imagine I could have done this myself but they could do the job for less than what I had anticipated paying for the part. The vehicle is running now, not surging and not stalling. I really thought my distributor was the culprit so I'm totally ok with that but still rather disturbed about the plugs and wires. He assured me that someone had to have cracked the plugs putting them in. Remember me mentioning having taken the vehicle to a shop 2 days prior? I took it in to see why the belts were squealing and to have the front end inspected. I had ZERO mechanical problems at that point. After dropping $450 there, 2 days later my truck runs like a p.o.s. Now I'm told that my problems were mainly due to cracked spark plugs because someone put them in wrong. I hope anybody reading these posts that had a bad impression of me understands now why I am leery of having my vehicle worked on. Mostly I want you, Nick, to further understand why I said what I said in the earlier post. I know we already went over this but what I've just went through should explain even further why I feel the way I do. Of course I understand how you feel as well but it's frustrating for people like me not to know who you can believe and trust.  Another thank you to all that spent any time on this. I also hope that this information might be of some help to someone at some point and save them a little time. This has been awful and has completely consumed my life for almost 3 weeks now!! And I'm almost $1,000 poorer! Yikes!!! 
(This post was edited by lashawnnull on Apr 5, 2012, 6:24 PM)
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nickwarner
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Apr 5, 2012, 6:54 PM
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Sad to see you get the run around, but glad your vehicle is running right for you now. Thanks for posting the fix and good luck with it.
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