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Sputtering after drive through puddle
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Anonymous Poster
leetmonk@gmail.com
Jan 3, 2009, 2:25 PM
Post #1 of 12
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Sputtering after drive through puddle
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Year: 1995
Mike: Mitsubishi
Model: Mighty Max pickup truck, 2 wheel drive
Engine size: small 4 cylinder...not sure how many ltrs
Mileage: 155k
Will try to be as detailed as possible:
Last Thursday we had massive amounts of rain in our area. Was driving home at night and saw a large puddle of water by a backed up drain. I slowed down to about 10mph--thinking that would be slow enough and drove through the puddle of water.
Immediately after, my truck started sputtering and shaking. I only had a couple of blocks more to drive so I made it home and turned off the engine. Next morning (Friday) I got up and started the engine. Engine still sputtering. I opened up the hood and saw that the engine was shaking vigorously. I tried to drive it but it had no power and giving it more gas didn’t seem to give it any more power.
I took the cap off the distributor, all dry. I checked the spark plugs externally, looked all dry. Checked spark plug wires too, also dry.
The engine still sputtered and shook. At times it would correct itself and run normally--when I would press consistently on the accelerator and find an RPM sweet spot. Also, sometimes at idle it would stop shaking and sputtering but for only a few seconds. It wasn’t drivable, so I took a friends car to work.
So, today I thought maybe there is a pool of water somewhere that is causing a short or something, so I'll warm the engine up and see if I can evaporate the water. Started the engine up again--no problem. Same thing--still sputtering and shaking badly. I let the engine warm up and then drove it around the block--seemed a little bit better--at least I made it all the way around the block this time. When I got back I noticed smoke coming up from the gap between the cab and the bed of the truck. I turned the truck off and after a couple of minutes the truck stopped smoking. I am pretty sure the smoke was oil--smelled like it. Wasn’t thick smoke but dark enough to tell it was oil.
I am not very mechanically inclined. There is a repair shop about 1/4 mile away. I don't know if my little work truck's problems will go away on its own or if I need to take it into the repair shop.
What’s wrong with my truck? Any advice?
Thanks!!
-Michael
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Loren Champlain Sr
Veteran
/ Moderator
Jan 3, 2009, 2:41 PM
Post #2 of 12
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Re: Sputtering after drive through puddle
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Michael; Sure sounds like a secondary ignition problem (cap,rotor, wires, plugs). Tom's idea of spraying a light mist of water on the wires and dist. cap to watch for arcing works very well. Also, look carefully inside the distributor cap for carbon tracking between the coil tower and the four plug wire contacts. The smoking may be the catalytic converter burning off the unburnt fuel (from the misfire).
Loren
SW Washington
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jan 3, 2009, 2:43 PM
Post #3 of 12
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Re: Sputtering after drive through puddle
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Hard to say for sure but the "secondaries" meaning high voltage items like cap, coil(s), wires, even plugs are weak links when suddenly doused. They were warm/hot when soaked and may have cracked or found a weak spot in a wire crossing up the firing - runs like crap and converter could glow hot trying to eat up all the unburned fuel while misfiring.
Those are the likely items that have failed. Sometimes you can see the "arching" of electricity if dark enough to know which item(s) are in trouble.
Notes: Water deeper than the bottom of a center line of wheel is too deep! If a true 10 mph - that's just fast enough to water ski and would make quite a spash unseen perhaps. Sometimes air intake will suck in water and that can blow the engine!
Tons of failures can result from driving thru water - starter motors, brake parts, washed out front end and driveline parts, bearings and lots more - not a good idea to drive thru deep water at all - guess you know that especially now,
T
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Guest
Anonymous Poster
Jan 3, 2009, 3:38 PM
Post #4 of 12
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Re: Sputtering after drive through puddle
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Thanks guys!
Yeah the water wasn't super deep...maybe about a foot or so. But like you said, at 10 mph is still created a pretty good splash up seen or unseen. can see the parts of the pavement through the engine compartment too...probably not enough of a sheild to protect from a splash up into the engine compartment.
I will try spraying the wires and cap this evening when its a little darker outside.
The distributor is on the drivers side of the engine towards the top. The spark plugs are all on the passenger side towards the middle on the side of the engine.
So a blast of water can ruin spark plug wires that instantly?
The air intake is on the top of the engine. The engine starts up fine. Does that rule out water in the engine?
So my plan of heating the car to evaporate the water probably won't work eh?
-Michael
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Loren Champlain Sr
Veteran
/ Moderator
Jan 3, 2009, 3:55 PM
Post #5 of 12
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Re: Sputtering after drive through puddle
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Running the engine with a misfire can damage other things. It can cause the catalytic converter to overheat/plug up/or, just plain kill it. The unburned fuel can wind up in the crankcase, dilluting the oil and causing engine damage from lack of lubrication. Note, fuel is still going into the cylinder that is not firing..It can wipe the cylinder wall of lubrication, also. Really best to find cause of misfire and correct it.
Loren
SW Washington
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jan 3, 2009, 3:56 PM
Post #6 of 12
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Re: Sputtering after drive through puddle
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It's the shock of cold on hot parts that would be the issue now. The heat probably already dried out moisture.
As far as intake: If and only if the water went in thru intake fast enough it could "hydraulic" lock the engine OR when RPMs are high enough it could bust piston, bend a rod - who knows? You can't compress a liquid so the weak link would break - that would be real bad luck if so. I doubt that happened but I wasn't there to witness how much how fast water sprayed about.
If that did happen and it still runs at all it may take some help to diagnose just how bad it hurt what.
Hey - a foot of water at 10 real MPH is a lot!
T
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Guest
Anonymous Poster
Jan 3, 2009, 7:58 PM
Post #7 of 12
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Re: Sputtering after drive through puddle
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So I used a spray bottle and squirted water on all the spark plug wires, distributor cap, and down into the spark plugs. No arcing at all on anything I squirted water on. It was dark outside so arcing visibility was good. I was pretty liberal with my water too.
Is it possible the spark plugs cracked, or otherwise broke?
I noticed my exhaust manifold and pipe is right under where my plugs are and is totally exposed to under the car.
What should I try next?
Think it is severe enough to have to take it to the shop?
Thanks!
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jan 3, 2009, 8:39 PM
Post #8 of 12
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Re: Sputtering after drive through puddle
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>>What should I try next?
Think it is severe enough to have to take it to the shop?<<
Arching may not show up at all. It's tough but cancelling one spark plug at a time could find which one if it's only one. By that I mean it's probably just one and with one wire dangling or grounded such that it can't fire ONE of them won't change much and the rest would probably disable the engine entirely in a four cylinder.
There's a high chance this is only picking on a wire, plug or distributor cap. YES - it's that easy for them to fail just like that! Coil wire right at the coil is also a trouble spot and might not show either. Could be wire or the plastic of the coil itself - it's much like the plastic of the dist cap.
I'm VERY reluctant to suggest that you might feel the electric shock if you ran your hand around so don't. Leave that to those who are up for that as the shock is minimal but surprising if found that way - dangerous for some so plain don't. You could use a jumper wire to ground a long screwdriver to body metal and run it along and close to items that carry the high voltage and might find arching that way vs feeling it.
If you have the time and ability, take the plugs out and see if one is greatly different than the others. Don't mix up which one belongs to which plug wire in doing that either.
If you can keep it idling at all you could also feel at the tailpipe for a regular putt, putt or a random misfiring action. At some point it will be best to get help. Anything is doable and waiting too long could ruin an expensive item. The cat converter and any o2 sensors won't be happy with a misfiring engine for long and permanant damge to those could result.
Don't feel bad about seeking pro help. It takes years, lots of cuts, burns, busted knuckles to gain the automatic know how of some things. Can't alway just explain everything for every possiblity so easy.
Again: If this damaged something mechanical with the engine it could be elusive for even a pro at first and a series of test would reveal what the trouble is. Some could be engine rendered junk even! Hope not but if that is true you want a good diagnosis that it is true.
Hey - I could be missing some suggestion that just isn't coming to mind right now too. Hope other watch and will suggest away too. Good luck,
T
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Guest
Anonymous Poster
Jan 3, 2009, 11:50 PM
Post #9 of 12
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Re: Sputtering after drive through puddle
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I will try canceling the spark plugs in the morning. By canceling I assume you mean disconnecting the spark plug wire from the spark plug one at a time until the engine doesn't start or something changes.
Is there any other possibility that hasn't been discussed yet? Water somehow getting g in the catolitic converter or somehow getting in the exhaust system or getting on something that was hot and causing it to warp or break or somehow getting into the engine or oil or something?? What if steam got sucked into the intake somehow??
Thanks again!
-Michael
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jan 4, 2009, 6:33 AM
Post #10 of 12
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Re: Sputtering after drive through puddle
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Cancelling plugs: Let me expound more on that. It's an old trick of isolating which cylinder IF it's only one cylinder which one is the culprit.
With a plug wire disconnected at the plug and grounded (jumper wire to ground- hard metal engine part would do) that plug is still taking the current but not making or trying to make that cylinder run anymore.
When just one cylinder is the problem, doing that one at a time will result in NO change on the BAD cylinder. All the rest would make it run worse or not at all in lesser cylinder engines. It's just a way to find which one to chase down.
If that finds which one - may not - then you can suspect the plug, wire, (possible problem at the dist cap) OR a problem with the cylinder itself not being able to fire for any reason - sometimes a bent, broken valve, or anything but you then know it's that one for further testing.
Know that liquids don't compress: Example, if you took a syringe (medical, automotive, or for cooking type) and it had just air (vapor) in it you could compress it down almost completely without much trouble and it would spring back. If that item was full of liquid it would not compress and the sidewalls of it would explode, plunger (piston) would fail or the weakest link. Got it? You engine is compressing gassous vapor not liquid (fuel is evaporated for use to combust) AND if enough water entered thru air intake it could and would try to compress it and a weak link (piston, rod, valve ??) would fail - a mechanical break or bent something would result. There's no one way it would absolutely fail so you would then find out what the item(s) are that are damaged and decide on what to do from there.
Another note: The longer and more testing the higher the chances of fouling up a good spark plug and making the diagnosis elusive if not impossible without some new or known good parts - like plugs and wires to begin with. You can get caught replacing parts to an engine that later will be declared junk so I'm trying to avoid that waste.
Yet another note: Boats are designed for water - not vehicles! The brake parts, bearinged items have air gaps and seals essentially to keep minor moisture and dirt out but not necessarily good at sealing out water. That much like a wristwatch! The sudden shock of cool/cold will make the air gaps shrink hence sucking in water with greased items for a host a failures to come over some time. Car's don't do boating! Let's find out just what was unhappy mechanically about the situation,
T
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Guest
Anonymous Poster
Jan 4, 2009, 4:05 PM
Post #11 of 12
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Re: Sputtering after drive through puddle
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Very happy to announce I was able to fix everything thanks to everyones help on here!
I pulled out the spark plug wire from the spark plugs one at a time and tried to start the engine. Working from the back of the engine to forward plug 1 wouldn't start, plug 2 engine did start, plug 3 started but just barely, plug 4 engine started.
I replaced 4 plugs and tried again. Truck still started but still ran the same. I took another look at the distributor cap and in the good light I was able to see a very small crack between two of the posts on the inside of the cap going around the perimeter. It was so small I didn't see it the first time, and even if I did I wouldn't have thought much of it side the crack really didn't even look like a crack--looked more like a fine line of dirt.
Anyway I replaced the cap and boom everything worked again and ran pefectly!
I did notice something unrelated to this perticular thread though.
On the passenger side of the engine, where the exhaust pipe connects to the pipe coming out of the engine (manifold?) there is a small hole in the exhaust pipe--more like a small tear really, less than an inch across. When the engine is running I can see a small bit of exhaust coming out. I really had to look hard to see it, it's that small. Probaby the water got on it and caused it to crack?
Is this something I need to worry about?
Thanks again for your help! I have learned my lesson about driving through water!!
-Michael.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jan 4, 2009, 4:36 PM
Post #12 of 12
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Re: Sputtering after drive through puddle
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That's pretty good news and glad to hear you found it and got to try that "cancelling" trick.
The dist crack can even be so fine it might even look like a pencil mark between posts inside and cause all hell. They can be bad and show nothing also.
The manifold/pipe or what exactly I'm not sure. If pipe metal and still strong it might take being welded or brazed over as a permanant fix. Cast metal is hard or near impossible to weld or at least I've had no luck.
Shock of cold sure could do it. That tear could get worse. IMO the puttys sold won't help much there - a real weld or braze might last forever. I do have to suggest taking care of that too as you just don't need any exhaust gasses that could enter cabin of this vehicle,
T
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