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pontiac t1000/Stalling issues
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Kellizle
Novice
Aug 25, 2012, 12:42 AM
Post #1 of 16
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pontiac t1000/Stalling issues
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It stalls until I run it for a bit. first or second stop sign (depending on weather) Any adviace on trouble shooting?
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 25, 2012, 1:42 AM
Post #2 of 16
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Re: pontiac t1000/Stalling issues
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Model year, engine size, any codes, what weather depending?
T
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Kellizle
Novice
Aug 25, 2012, 10:59 AM
Post #3 of 16
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Re: pontiac t1000/Stalling issues
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1986 4c 1.6L. no trouble codes. Replaced the PcV valve, adjusted the choke screw. next cheap fix is the fuel filter but I have this feeling it has to do with the choke...
Edit: coldish weather takes longer ect.
(This post was edited by Kellizle on Aug 25, 2012, 11:04 AM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 25, 2012, 12:36 PM
Post #4 of 16
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Re: pontiac t1000/Stalling issues
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A bad vacuum leak will give you the same symptoms.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 25, 2012, 12:48 PM
Post #5 of 16
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Re: pontiac t1000/Stalling issues
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Hope pics show.......
 
That should show top and bottom with this carb off IF THE NON COMPUTER ONE as evidenced by just one wire going to the choke's black housing.
If more wires let me know.
First of two pics shows only 1 barrel requires the choke and shown it is shut or as it would be cold. If that is stuck wide open this would be hell to start and run lousy till warmed up a bit and real cold might not start at all - that's IF that top plate is stuck open. PLEASE DON'T GO ADJUSTING THINGS AS MOST IS PRESET so if something isn't working there's something to fix.
Hope that choke plate is just stuck. Use carb or throttle body cleaner with spray nozzle where it pivots and CAREFULLY free it up and any linkage found behind that black choke spring is what that is.
Go real easy on this as this carb is insanely expensive for the non computerized one and computerized one probably out values the car!
Choke when cold and throttle touched should snap shut. Once engine starts it will instantly open that plate a crack by a choke pull off or would flood out easily.
I'll stop describing maybes till I hear back on what moves or doesn't. You should be able to watch this with air cleaner removed and hoses plugged off if you start it to see operation -- that's just hoses that would be loose with air cleaner off. If it can set aside with them connected do it that way.
Again, not much is adjustable but rather cleanable and some requires some very detailed instructions to repair just parts to these or even access places to clean,
T
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Kellizle
Novice
Aug 25, 2012, 6:11 PM
Post #6 of 16
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Re: pontiac t1000/Stalling issues
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It's a computerized one. A buddy that I work with was saying it was somthing with the choke, and if I didn't want to drop the money on the thermostat to just put in a manual choke.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 25, 2012, 11:45 PM
Post #7 of 16
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Re: pontiac t1000/Stalling issues
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Unless VERY clever FORGET the manual choke idea. Those black 'bi-metal' spring choke springs are pretty good and only electric about them is to heat it faster with that electric wire it will get hot enough to turn off without engine heat. Yup - a whole new choke spring is pricey but so is $500 or more bucks for this carb!
The problem with going manual is the step cam which raises idle speed for initial start up and graduated lower till it is on the fully warmed up idle speed.
The computer (loose term for this) control is or should be just a metering rod(s) in float bowl to stupidly attempt to be faster and more accurate than mechanically sensing how far up or down a silly tapered rod should be in a measured hole (jet) to allow proper fuel flow. Last carbs were an exercise in "Dumb and Dumber" with car makers struggling to design fuel delivery to meet emissions mostly and taking out mechanical judgement and worse is finding workers that actually had to know something to make new parts!
Trust me - I think this is lack of proper fuel while cold as you have suspected which is either a vacuum leak that HT suggested which is adding air into intake without regard to fuel or the choke isn't choking properly or not at all?
That time for cold start and the first 5 minutes or so IS a huge waste of fuel and fussy to get just right to meet emission requirements. Then when warm a choke is just dead weight, not used any more for running the thing.
Rule things out. Does the top choke 'butterfly' plate move at all -- engine off with throttle held part open it should move with your fingers and watch the rods and things move. Those get greasy, corroded or sticky from who knows so they make carb cleaner.
Go easy and careful but a vacuum leak can be about anything sealing off intake manifold from outside air. Base gasket of carb, intake gasket to head, any vacuum hose(s) that are cracked, missing or broken in some way and with carb cleaner (fire hazard so careful) and cooler idling engine just quick sprays at specific suspect areas will alter idle speed if leaking. JUST A TAD IF YOU DO THAT! It works for finding leaks but the spray is flammable so I have to suggest all caution for a flash fire. NOBODY IS HERE TO GET YOU HURT, BURNED, CUT OR ANYTHING so in doing whatever be ready or get help.
If this engine is basically healthy the carb can be fixed to work as intended or vacuum leaks if found fixed if not a cracked Major part.
Other: Any but more specifically this wants good PCV integrity. That means that "Positive Crankcase Ventilation" is to be slightly below atmospheric pressure or if not oily fumes will back up into air intake, gaskets leak all over the thing frequently at the age would be excessive "blow-by" of pressure passing the piston rings exceeding what the PCV can handle. If at that point and that is causing problems there's only so much faking it to buy some time and this car is done with unless it's some love affair and cost is no object.
Here to help and unless whole car is plain worn out this issue can be fixed but just fix it as it was intended to work,
T
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Kellizle
Novice
Aug 26, 2012, 9:27 AM
Post #8 of 16
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Re: pontiac t1000/Stalling issues
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Okay. So last night I went to change the fuel filter (line borke.) But to my suprprise there wasn't a fuel filter in there. Am I wrong in thinking this could be my main issue?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 26, 2012, 9:41 AM
Post #9 of 16
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Re: pontiac t1000/Stalling issues
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It's not the actual cause but it could have led to the actual cause by allowing dirt into a place that it was meant to protect.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 26, 2012, 9:48 AM
Post #10 of 16
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Re: pontiac t1000/Stalling issues
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Pic again....
Inlet near lower left should be the only OE fuel filter TMK. It may have been deleted for an in line one. Now if line broke that's an issue on top of problems. If line flare nut stuck to line and twisted then broke or tell me/us how it broke. You can make up new line and a union between there and fuel pump at a good spot. Damn - now if this has been without any fuel filter it could be troubles. Don't let any debris from breaking the line get in at least for right now.
Fuel filter should be this.......
That should also have a spring too and if missing that will be hard to find. I'll actually go look and see if I have one you can have for the postage if so. For now get that line properly replaced with metal line that should be just sold with the flare nut at both ends of a line length of your choice and cut to length, bend as it was to a real union (ask for that specifically) not just clamp and rubber near anything hot or that can get rubbed on by moving anything!
Are you up to making up this line or you'll need some help. Some tools needed and you aren't going to diagnose anything till fuel supply is back in order,
T
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Kellizle
Novice
Aug 27, 2012, 12:22 PM
Post #11 of 16
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Re: pontiac t1000/Stalling issues
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Thats exactly how it broke. right next to the fuel filter. The spring is missing. I'm looking online for a line but not sure what to look for.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 27, 2012, 4:04 PM
Post #12 of 16
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Re: pontiac t1000/Stalling issues
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I did look and don't have one left. Used to keep a longer and shorter filter housing on hand for these always if only damaged, dropped or lost somehow. Any Rochester carb with the similar housing in a junkyard would have that spring or take the whole thing as there's a near invisible probably nylon on most gasket at end of larger threads where they bottom out in the carb. I do have one of those. They WILL leak if that isn't there!
Happy hunting. You'll find what you need somewhere,
T
PS: May have a lapse off line - others here to assist as they can........
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Kellizle
Novice
Aug 30, 2012, 12:38 PM
Post #13 of 16
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Re: pontiac t1000/Stalling issues
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Okay got the fuel line fixed. cleaned the carb. the choke flutters when I do a choke check, but does not close. everything else seems to work.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 30, 2012, 12:54 PM
Post #14 of 16
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Re: pontiac t1000/Stalling issues
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When cold choke plate should be just snug closed (throttle tripping it) and pretty stuck when warmed up but not flapping away. Sounds like maybe choke spring inside that black housing or is something like a rod in this picture to mess this up? Some choke springs were a loop to center what they were moving unseen inside. Some housings (probably) were riveted and to replace you drilled those out and used self taping screws and the little butterfly things to secure it back in place.
Touchy stuff if you need to drill don't mess up. Drill the wrong way or hit the wrong parts you are screwed - no pun. If it can run well with choke off when warmed up but needs help (priming) when cold to just warm up then fix the choke. Watch out if you rig something to hold it steady that NOTHING falls into carb. Had a carpenter use a nail to hold one open that wouldn't and cost him an engine!
T
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Kellizle
Novice
Aug 30, 2012, 6:37 PM
Post #15 of 16
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Re: pontiac t1000/Stalling issues
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Is that what would for lose terms, put the choke down. tinkering with it seems like theres nothing pushing it down. I pull on the throttel cable and and have to push down on the choke to get it to fall.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 31, 2012, 12:36 AM
Post #16 of 16
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Re: pontiac t1000/Stalling issues
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Bear with me - going blind reading posts all over the place. That choke plate if not caught up in the "step" cam that holds idle up when cold should be free to move to extremes. Cold should spring to shut. Warmed up would be straight up or open - all this engine off.
Pivots, linkage or if plate is loose - anything messing it up is not right. Just gas, some oil fumes make things sticky on inside and who knows what junk can make things a mess on outside exposed parts. Inside the black choke spring housing can get messed up or broken. As said, it could be riveted on if you think that's where the trouble is. If already done or redone it would be screws but must be put back in proper place exactly.
I just think your best fix is a properly operating choke as intended. Kits to make them manual lack. Got the T-Shirt owning cars that, that had been done to and undid it back to the way it was.
When the design (loooong ago) was for manual choke only several things were different. Operator just had to know if, when, how long and how much choke action was needed by temperature of engine and weather. I'm off on a tangent now but the best theft control today would be to make those again as nobody would figure that out instantly in their head without searching the entire web on how we all did that without thinking.
There was nothing really wrong with carbs except that so many people messed with them or made random guess adjustments that you had to start over. The initial design was to behave and this one should and some of that parts if needed are a bit pricey for a carb and only you can decide on what to spend on what. Screwing it up will cost more and the car is old now all to factor in,
T
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